Why haven't India won an ICC trophy since 2013?

[duffer]

Why haven't we brought up the Panauti Factor? That's 1000% the reason here

 

[Daemon]

There’s been a few chokes in tests as well. Failing to close out the one off test against England to win the series and failing to bowl out SA twice while in winning positions being the most notable ones.

 

[Socerer 01]

we are never going to be favourites in any t20 world cup as long as we keep playing this outdated model of cricket where we conserve wickets till the end when batting for death overs hitting and we try to conserve runs when bowling over trying to take wickets. its not impossible to win even with bad strategy like Australia in UAE in t20s because the format rewards dumb luck but it isnt easy either when you choose to approach tournament t20s in the old fashion

the 2015 side was never likely to win despite being defending champions and it was a positive surprise that we even reached the semi final without losing a match. Australia then were much better

2019 and 2023 were both down to strategic blunders. 2019 had Shami being omitted, not choosing to play completely defensive because INTENT was the mantra then and then promoting DK and Pant ahead of Dhoni. 2023 we approached it as if we could just turn up and win with all the political drama around it where as Australia worked hard and analysed us and the pitch heavily. it showed in the way reports leaked of Dravid being unhappy with the pitch, Ashwin being surprised at how well prepared Australia were etc, the lack of fields and plans we had for Australian batsmen compared to what they did for us, the way Kohli and Rahul tried to play without hitting boundaries because they believed the pitch would ease up at the end to hit etc

2017 champions trophy is the real miss in this and idk why they lost there

add to that hb and @Silver Silva already made excellent points that also contribute. this team and most of its fans still believe that a great batsman at 6 is more important than having 6 bowling options with 2 all rounders among that and as much as they defend that by saying the 6th bowler didnt matter really in any of the losses it has been contributing subtly

 

[OverratedSanity]

Hard to say. They haven't really had any really big mental lapses or blunders that cost them, they just kinda play meh in the biggest games. Also, some of them like the 2015 wc, 2019 wc and arguably 2016 t20 the team over performed even by getting that far in the tournament.

They had no chance once Aus made the final, and it wasn’t even a vintage Aus outfit. The default position in WC finals is if you’re playing Australia, you’re almost certain to lose. They just perform at their best in them for whatever reason, to the point they sort of expect to win all the time

Also, while obviously India entered the final as favourites because they'd won every game, most of them convincingly, it's not like Australia limped into the final themselves. Despite a couple of wobbles, they won 8 in a row to get to the final, which gets weirdly overlooked. India were favourites to win the final but they really weren't as overwhelming favourites as the casual fan made them out to be imo.

 

[Molehill]

They had no chance once Aus made the final, and it wasn’t even a vintage Aus outfit. The default position in WC finals is if you’re playing Australia, you’re almost certain to lose. They just perform at their best in them for whatever reason, to the point they sort of expect to win all the time

In 4 of those they'd have started big favourites though. Only 2023 was really one against the head.

Also, you have to go back further than an away Ashes triumph for Australia for the last time they beat England in a knockout match (although would help if we made the knockouts more often!!).

As for India, as @Ali TT says, most of those tournaments they weren't exactly favourites to win. Only 2023 really went wrong and it was an odd pitch that Cummins worked out quicker than anyone else.

 

[Ali TT]

Kinda disagree to some extent. India totally dominated WC 2023 like Australia in 2007, right upto the Finals. If India shouldn't had won this one, then Australia shouldn't had won in 2003. Champions Trophy 2017 also India were the heavy favourites and they reached the Finals against frankly a mediocre Pakistan team. Again, India should had won that. It's by any means a big thing how we have **** ourselves constantly when it mattered the most. 2019 WC Semi-finals, we were the favourites against New Zealand, though England were the overall favourites. I would give you the edge over 2015 semifinal and the WTC Finals (to an extent, as matches right after IPL in England against Australia and England.... Yeah, any SC team isn't favourite there.) Overall, why India didn't had a better team, I personally think isn't the way to go, especially after this WC.

I'm agreeing with you re 2023. 2017 maybe, but India weren't really better than England and both lost to an inspired Pakistan side in the KOs. Outside home conditions, India have never produced a side you'd fancy in ODI tournaments and while World T20 tournaments are something of a lottery, I doubt many non-Indian fans are shocked India have not won since the first one. Their T20 sides just haven't been all that.

So in general, I'd argue that the reason India haven't won anything is because other sides have been better but the case by case reasons why will vary, and not a useful predictor for future competitions.

 

[honestbharani]

I'm agreeing with you re 2023. 2017 maybe, but India weren't really better than England and both lost to an inspired Pakistan side in the KOs. Outside home conditions, India have never produced a side you'd fancy in ODI tournaments and while World T20 tournaments are something of a lottery, I doubt many non-Indian fans are shocked India have not won since the first one. Their T20 sides just haven't been all that.

So in general, I'd argue that the reason India haven't won anything is because other sides have been better but the case by case reasons why will vary, and not a useful predictor for future competitions.

I think it's mostly true but the annoying part for the fans, esp the casual ones, is the fact that the winners are different teams but the favorites who lose in one of the KO games continue to be us. Plus we have the largest cricket fan base so you just hear it more often on social and regular cricket media.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'm agreeing with you re 2023. 2017 maybe, but India weren't really better than England and both lost to an inspired Pakistan side in the KOs. Outside home conditions, India have never produced a side you'd fancy in ODI tournaments and while World T20 tournaments are something of a lottery, I doubt many non-Indian fans are shocked India have not won since the first one. Their T20 sides just haven't been all that.

So in general, I'd argue that the reason India haven't won anything is because other sides have been better but the case by case reasons why will vary, and not a useful predictor for future competitions.

Okay I get your point. I am not really interested in T20Is and WTC Finals in Lords isn't really ideal for a SC team (India will probably win once BCCI makes them do the final in Eden Gardens); so at it stands, among 4 big tournaments since 2013, India dominated in one tournament and lost to a mediocre side in the other. Among the two rest, 2015 Australia dominated and I would still maintain India were the second favourites in 2019 behind England, in English conditions or not. Rohit had a dream run, Kohli was in form, the pacers were regularly controlling matches and India weren't looking shabby. But yeah, NZ were also a very good team and that match was definitely supposed to be close. So yeah, 2 out of 4 I think sums up India's odds perfectly.

 

[Spark]

Hard to say. They haven't really had any really big mental lapses or blunders that cost them, they just kinda play meh in the biggest games. Also, some of them like the 2015 wc, 2019 wc and arguably 2016 t20 the team over performed even by getting that far in the tournament.



Also, while obviously India entered the final as favourites because they'd won every game, most of them convincingly, it's not like Australia limped into the final themselves. Despite a couple of wobbles, they won 8 in a row to get to the final, which gets weirdly overlooked. India were favourites to win the final but they really weren't as overwhelming favourites as the casual fan made them out to be imo.

The strange thing was though, you had to step back and look at the 8 games collectively to see how impressive that streak was. Looking at each match individually, divorced from that context of constantly finding ways to win, many and maybe even most of those wins weren't totally impressive. Either they involved freak performances out of nowhere (Afghanistan), underwhelming defences of what should have been insurmountable totals (Pakistan and NZ) or were just plain scrappy and unconvincing (SA, to a lesser extent England) so you could always make the case after each individual game that the performances didn't merit a huge amount of optimism heading into the final. That, and the overwhelming assumption that every conceivable on- and off-field factor would be on India's side, goes some way to explaining the general assumption that Australia were huge underdogs in that final. But the thing is, finding different ways to win come what may is a skill in itself.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

They had no chance once Aus made the final, and it wasn’t even a vintage Aus outfit. The default position in WC finals is if you’re playing Australia, you’re almost certain to lose. They just perform at their best in them for whatever reason, to the point they sort of expect to win all the time

Tbh I wasn’t absolutely confident till Kohli got out. Once Cummins got his wicket, it was clear to my mind that India had no chance at all.

 

[Starfighter]

The strange thing was though, you had to step back and look at the 8 games collectively to see how impressive that streak was. Looking at each match individually, divorced from that context of constantly finding ways to win, many and maybe even most of those wins weren't totally impressive. Either they involved freak performances out of nowhere (Afghanistan), underwhelming defences of what should have been insurmountable totals (Pakistan and NZ) or were just plain scrappy and unconvincing (SA, to a lesser extent England) so you could always make the case after each individual game that the performances didn't merit a huge amount of optimism heading into the final. That, and the overwhelming assumption that every conceivable on- and off-field factor would be on India's side, goes some way to explaining the general assumption that Australia were huge underdogs in that final. But the thing is, finding different ways to win come what may is a skill in itself.

You can also add that conversely, India steamrollered their opponents in pretty much every match except the group one vs NZ

 

[Spark]

Tbh I wasn’t absolutely confident till Kohli got out. Once Cummins got his wicket, it was clear to my mind that India had no chance at all.

Hearing that crowd go absolutely dead silent in like two seconds flat will stay with me for a long time. Really felt as if Australia had taken command of the occasion psychologically at that point.

 

[Kirkut]

Winning world events is not meant to be a routine thing, unless you are as good as Phelps or Bolt.

South Africa hasn't won any major icc event, but they are not pushover either.

 

[Daemon]

The strange thing was though, you had to step back and look at the 8 games collectively to see how impressive that streak was. Looking at each match individually, divorced from that context of constantly finding ways to win, many and maybe even most of those wins weren't totally impressive. Either they involved freak performances out of nowhere (Afghanistan), underwhelming defences of what should have been insurmountable totals (Pakistan and NZ) or were just plain scrappy and unconvincing (SA, to a lesser extent England) so you could always make the case after each individual game that the performances didn't merit a huge amount of optimism heading into the final. That, and the overwhelming assumption that every conceivable on- and off-field factor would be on India's side, goes some way to explaining the general assumption that Australia were huge underdogs in that final. But the thing is, finding different ways to win come what may is a skill in itself.

That **** builds character though. India folded under real pressure which they hadn’t faced all tournament.

I didn’t rate them as favourites in any of the other games mentioned in this thread except the CT and T20 finals.

The tests where they failed to bowl SA and Eng out remain the biggest failures after the 2023 WC final.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Winning world events is not meant to be a routine thing, unless you are as good as Phelps or Bolt.

Or as Good as Australia. Anyway, Huge difference between winning in a Individual sport and winning in Team Sport.

 

[Aidan11]

England went 35 years without a major tournament win (1975-2010).

Probably the longest any of the major nations have gone.

 

[Ali TT]

Okay I get your point. I am not really interested in T20Is and WTC Finals in Lords isn't really ideal for a SC team (India will probably win once BCCI makes them do the final in Eden Gardens); so at it stands, among 4 big tournaments since 2013, India dominated in one tournament and lost to a mediocre side in the other. Among the two rest, 2015 Australia dominated and I would still maintain India were the second favourites in 2019 behind England, in English conditions or not. Rohit had a dream run, Kohli was in form, the pacers were regularly controlling matches and India weren't looking shabby. But yeah, NZ were also a very good team and that match was definitely supposed to be close. So yeah, 2 out of 4 I think sums up India's odds perfectly.

I hadn't even thought about the Test Championship, lol. For a start, India were dealt a raw deal in 2021 as England had provided a perfect warm up for the Kiwis with a 2-test series beforehand.

 

[Coronis]

England went 35 years without a major tournament win (1975-2010).

Probably the longest any of the major nations have gone.

South Africa’s closing in on 25 now or something aren’t they?

 

[subshakerz]

I hadn't even thought about the Test Championship, lol. For a start, India were dealt a raw deal in 2021 as England had provided a perfect warm up for the Kiwis with a 2-test series beforehand.

In the 2021 WTC final, it was destined to be a draw until the last day, when Indian batting collapsed against the flow of the game. I definitely see that as a disappointing performance.

 

[Ali TT]

In the 2021 WTC final, it was destined to be a draw until the last day, when Indian batting collapsed against the flow of the game. I definitely see that as a disappointing performance.

Or maybe the Kiwis had the yards in their legs to take it through to the end after a good prep against England.