???
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Ambrose vs Imran, who was better away from home?
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Lol. I literally wrote that statement thinking maybe it's Hadlee but then deciding it's Ambrose by the end of the sentence.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Again Imran's performance in WI is better than Ambrose anywhere except him in Aus. Imran's average there is marginally pulled down because of being over-bowled in his first series. Also he has a WPM go 6 there, and strikes at 45. Also despite Imran averaging 28 in Australia, it is pulled down by his last series, where he was playing as a batter more(otherwise 40 wickets in 8 matches + WSC record). Plus Imran also averages under 25 in Eng. Also Imran's average is good for NZ. He outperformed Hadlee by far in those tests. Ambrose' performance in Pak is nowhere close to Imran in Wi. Looking at pure averages is very misleading.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Ambrose lacks a good record in the SC. Imran has one everywhere: SC, swinging conditions, conditions with bounce etc
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Ambrose HAS a good record in SC. He did perfectly fine in Pakistan and his lone match in Sri Lanka. Just because he never played in India doesn't mean he has a bad record in SC.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
his record in Pak means nothing for accomplishment in SC conditions. The 1990 series was on pitches favouring fast bowlers, and his you can't extrapolate anything from his record in SL. I never said he has a bad record in SC. He just lacks a good one
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Exactly.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
No. 15 wickets in 5 tests isnt good really, it's ok. No real sample in SL and India. So a questionmark.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
And majority of them on very un-SC like pitches
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
People here don't know how bad he was in Pakistan in 97. He was clueless, anodyne and completely outbowled by Wasim and Walsh.
That's what happen when you have no cutters or swing and basically bowl in a straight line ball after ball.
kyear2
International Coach
Ok, Imran's performance in the WI (25) is better than Ambrose's record anywhere outside of Australia. What's Imran's other overseas record of note?
kyear2
International Coach
The SC isn't just Pakistan, he averaged 28 in India.
Imran and Ambrose were as different a d as far a part as two bowlers can be. Different strengths and weaknesses, but Ambrose destroyed Australia and England away from home, where did Imran dominate over the course of his career, away from Pakistan?
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
WI. 48 wickets in 8 matches @ SR of 45. Imran was great in Eng and Aus too(not Ambrose level in Aus obviously). Ambrose faced poor Eng lineups, and good pitches in Eng. Most ATGs would have done what Ambrose did in Eng. And Imran averaged 19 on flat tracks in Pak, vs strong WI and Ind batting lineups. He was great in SL, and his average of 28 in ind is goodish, considering that his first in Ind was great, and the 2nd one was literally played on cement pitches. So Imran has a great record in Aus, Eng, Australia, WI(Ambrose level in Aus), home, SL, goodish in NZ(far better than Hadlee). Imran is literally the first bowler you pick to ball on SC pitches, along with say Marshall.
Last edited:
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Ambrose has great performances at home, Eng, Aus(godly), but his records in SL, NZ are too small to conclude anything. The Pak one is merely ok , when you look at context(the fast bowler friendly 1990 series, and the poor 1997 one)
kyear2
International Coach
Why denigrate Curtly's performances in England by saying anyone else could have? Donald didn't, Wasim didn't.... Come on.
If Wasim averaged 19 on flat pitches in Pakistan, why did he not come close to that average literally anywhere else outside of minnows SL? He wasn't goodish in India, nor was he great in Australia nor England. He was good in England and above average in Australia.
And to say Ambrose record in Pakistan doesn't count because the pitches weren't dead enough? And to say Imran bowled on dead tracks in India, so did everyone in the era.
And first pick in the SC, Marshall.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Marshall=Imran in SC. Imran literally took 40 wickets in 6 matches vs a strong Ind lineup on flat tracks(cause Imran scored on those tracks himself). And the pitches on 1987, were worse than usual. And Imran had a great record in Eng, he surely would done what Curtly, at least to some extent. And Ambrose in Eng is great, not int the league of Imran in Wi or himself in Aus
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
And the 1990 series in Pak, were on pitches that heavily favoured fast bowling. Imran proved himself on dead tracks in the 80s. And he had a Marshall level perfomaces in SC, vs Ind in 1982/83.
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Dude he averaged under 25 vs Eng, so he was very good to great there. Also you need to see his performance in. Aus in context. His last series, he played as a batter more than as a bowler, Otherwise he took 41 wickets in 8 matches, including one of the most important spells in Pak history, and additionally was superb in WSC. He was fantastic in Aus(not as good as Ambrose tho). And you can't only look at averages. Imran's performance in WI doesn't have the greatest of averages, but is amongst the greatest of performances by a visiting bowl in any country. So he was great in Aus, Eng, Pak, SL, WI. And pls look at context
Last edited:
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
Imran and Steyn both had great performances in Aus. Also Imran is great in Eng(id still rate Ambrose ahead), cause he played a part in Pak's first series win there, and despite his series there, where he wasn't even as good as a club level bowler, his average is still sub 25. Context.
kyear2
International Coach
The pitches in '83 were prepared to nullify the west indies pacers and before then Marshall played in '78 as a wsc replacement well before he was ready and still ended with an average of 24 In India, take away that first series and see what he was capable of in India. And he averaged 21 as a visitor in Pakistan.... There's no contest there.
And Imran didn't have a great record in England, he had a good one. Marshall had a great record in England.
And yes, Imran had a good record in the WI, and that's the primary reason (also WSC) he's top 6 for me, but that's what it was very good, but not as good as what Ambrose did in Australia.
With regards to the last tour of Australia, he opened the bowling with the two W's in the team, as captain be opened the bowling with himself. And the last match was a simple rain out. Yes he had good performances in Australia, but he averaged 28 in Australia.
And again, if he did average 19 on the flat pitches of Pakistan, why didn't he approach that average anywhere else?