***Official*** Pakistan in Australia 2023/24

[Starfighter]

Mitchell Starc gets criticised when he is not taking wickets, but he is a strike bowler and will be expensive at times. Being a left arm fast bowler he adds variety to our attack. He is good at taking wickets with the new ball and is not nick-named the mop for nothing,

He has now taken 342 wickets at 27.53 and only 4 bowlers have taken more wickets for Australia.

Bowlers that lack control at times being excused as 'strike bowlers' wears thin. The best strike bowlers are very accurate, like Marshall, or indeed Cummins. Cummins actually has a slightly better strike rate than Starc. Longevity and variety aren't quality.

The frustration people have with Starc is that he has spells, matches and even series (like the last two India home series) performing poorly and letting the pressure off. He's clearly the worst of the big three due to this inconsistency, and leads people to consider him unreliable. There's also a perception he often gets wickets when it doesn't matter, though I doubt there's an objective way to determine this. There's been times where he's clearly gotten fatigued throughout a series, yet they don't use the excuse of 'resting him', even in a dead rubber.

I'm not a fan of chopping and changing players like England usually do. Stability is good. But some players (as with Warner and his several years of failure) seem to have a divine right to their spot. Contrary to what McDonald says, the only way you'll know replacements are worthy of their spot over incumbents is by playing them so they get test experience. When incumbents are allowed infinite chances to save their spot with a single good performance, you mightn't know whether a replacement could have done better.

 

[Starfighter]

Anyway, overall that was a really fascinating match, but in the end it was the same old with Pakistan, for the same reasons.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bowlers that lack control at times being excused as 'strike bowlers' wears thin. The best strike bowlers are very accurate, like Marshall, or indeed Cummins. Cummins actually has a slightly better strike rate than Starc. Longevity and variety aren't quality.

The frustration people have with Starc is that he has spells, matches and even series (like the last two India homes series) performing poorly and letting the pressure off. He's clearly the worst of the big three due to this inconsistency. There's also a perception he picks up wickets when it doesn't matter, though I doubt there's an objective way to determine this. There's been times where he's clearly gotten fatigued throughout a series, but they don't even use the excuse of 'resting him', even in a dead rubber.

I'm not a fan of chopping and changing players like England usually do. Stability is good. But some players (as with Warner and his several years of failure) seem to have a divine right to their spot. Contrary to what McDonald says, the only way you'll know replacements are worthy of their spot over incumbents is by playing so they get test experience. When incumbents are allowed infinite chances to save their spot with a single good performance, you mightn't know whether a replacement could have done better.

I think we would be better off "resting" bowlers a bit more like England do, but maybe not to quite the same extent. Starc/Cummins/Haze have been the incumbents and always seem to play when fit barring the rare exception, and they have looked tired at times toward the end of series and it has literally lost us series. When we've had some really good back-ups like Neser, Boland and Jhye (when available) I think we would have been better off giving them a bit more of a run at times. If you look at the last home Ashes series Neser, Richardson and Boland all performed when called upon.

I've also never liked Starc in Tests so I'll admit to a bias there but on green wickets he's a liability most of the time when we've got more accurate bowlers on the bench

Hazlewood is on borrowed time too. Been great for nearly a decade but there are guys in the wings that deserve a chance to knock him off

 

[Spark]

If we go into the next Ashes series with an attack that looks like Cummins/Richardson/Morris/Lyon with Marsh and/or Green to provide that tall outswinger point of difference then I'll be perfectly happy with how things have panned out.

 

[GIMH]

Was @morgieb panicking about defeat when Pak were 200-5?

 

[Starfighter]

I think we would be better off "resting" bowlers a bit more like England do, but maybe not to quite the same extent. Starc/Cummins/Haze have been the incumbents and always seem to play when fit barring the rare exception, and they have looked tired at times toward the end of series and it has literally lost us series. When we've had some really good back-ups like Neser, Boland and Jhye (when available) I think we would have been better off giving them a bit more of a run at times. If you look at the last home Ashes series Neser, Richardson and Boland all performed when called upon.

I've also never liked Starc in Tests so I'll admit to a bias there but on green wickets he's a liability most of the time when we've got more accurate bowlers on the bench

Hazlewood is on borrowed time too. Been great for nearly a decade but there are guys in the wings that deserve a chance to knock him off

Yeah, there's no need to go back to the dreaded days of the 'rotation policy', and I do think Starc will pretty much always be a cut above Neser on anything other than grassy pitches, but considering how continuous the workloads of bowlers tend to be there's ample room to give the backups a go every now and again. Neser was also unlucky not to play to least one match.

OTOH, I thought Starc was hard done by not to start the Ashes. It was clear that the pitches were not going to favour Boland, with his lack of pace and bounce England would target him, and playing both him and Haze was risky. One glance at the Edgbaston pitch should have shown it was going to be a belter. But Starc mightn't have performed as well as he did if he did play an extra test, and on paper Boland was a better bowler for English conditions.

Morris is a good case in point. I have grave doubts his action will let him remain injury free. But while they have sights on him, there's no reason to not rest one of Starc or Haze (maybe alternately) in either the forthcoming dead rubber match and against the West Indies. If one of them goes down injured, we might need to call on him against much tougher opponents like India. Better to get him started when there's less pressure.

That said, I do think the World Test Championship, to the extent anyone takes it seriously (like, India were clearly better than us over the last cycle and we were lucky the Oval pitch favoured us much more than it might have) provides a significant disincentive to trialling players unless absolutely necessary, as strictly speaking there's no dead rubbers anymore.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Fergus O'Neill is a smoky for the 2027 Ashes. If the wickets are typical-England conducive to swing/seam then he could be there in 4 years IMO

 

[honestbharani]

Oh, and kudos to the groundspeople for the last two wickets. For too long we've seen roads all over Australia. Even last year we had four pretty flat decks and one out and out minefield. This pitch was a wonderful wicket and Perth offered plenty for everyone too (if it perhaps broke up a bit too early).

I dont think Perth was that good at all but this wicket has been great.

 

[honestbharani]

When incumbents are allowed infinite chances to save their spot with a single good performance, you mightn't know whether a replacement could have done better.

a.k.a the Pujara Rahane (Purane, if you will) problem.

 

[social]

Haze & Cummins definitely looked a bit sore today when chasing balls but doubt that either will miss Davey’s last game

 

[social]

Btw, **** you Shafique for stuffing up my bet

Warner is shot and should have been easy money

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

5.6 CONTACT WITH THE BALL

5.6.1 reference to the bat shall imply that the bat is held in the batter’s hand or a glove worn on his/her hand, unless stated otherwise

5.6.2 contact between the ball and any of 5.6.2.1 to 5.6.2.4

5.6.2.1 the bat itself

5.6.2.2 the batter’s hand holding the bat

5.6.2.3 any part of a glove worn on the batter’s hand holding the bat

5.6.2.4 any additional materials permitted under 5.4

shall be regarded as the ball striking or touching the bat or being struck by the bat.

 

[Starfighter]

If we go into the next Ashes series with an attack that looks like Cummins/Richardson/Morris/Lyon with Marsh and/or Green to provide that tall outswinger point of difference then I'll be perfectly happy with how things have panned out.

I wouldn't be fussed with that either, on current demonstrated ability, though as I said I have doubts Morris will stand up over the long term. It'd be nice to another potential express bowler emerge soon, as Meredith hasn't developed.

Marsh vs Green is interesting. Marsh clearly deserves the spot on batting atm, though IMO Green's bowling has a much higher ceiling. I don't want Green playing tests until they can fit him in the team without ruining him by making him bat unnaturally. Contrary to what TJB says, there's no right way to bat 6. Imran Khan had plenty of success at 6 and 7 striking at 48, Trevor Bailey had a good record at 7 striking at about 30. But there is clearly an expectation in Australian cricket atm that no. 6s have to score very quickly. I'd rather look on Green as a future Smith replacement, or maybe no. 5. I could see a future top order like opener 1- opener 2 - Labuschagne - Green - Head - Hardie - keeper, or something along those lines.

 

[Shady Slim]

I wouldn't be fussed with that either, on current demonstrated ability, though as I said I have doubts Morris will stand up over the long term. It'd be nice to another potential express bowler emerge soon, as Meredith hasn't developed.

Marsh vs Green is interesting. Marsh clearly deserves the spot on batting atm, though IMO Green's bowling has a much higher ceiling. I don't want Green playing tests until they can fit him in the team without ruining him by making him bat unnaturally. Contrary to what TJB says, there's no right way to bat 6. Imran Khan had plenty of success at 6 and 7 striking at 48, Trevor Bailey had a good record at 7 striking at about 30. But there is clearly an expectation in Australian cricket atm that no. 6s have to score very quickly. I'd rather look on Green as a future Smith replacement, or maybe no. 5. I could see a future top order like opener 1- opener 2 - Labuschagne - Green - Head - Hardie - keeper, or something along those lines.

broadly agree with your post but tbf the best green looked was when he was playing aggressively and getting quick runs

his problem has been confidence more than all else at the highest level he’s not backing himself

 

[Starfighter]

broadly agree with your post but tbf the best green looked was when he was playing aggressively and getting quick runs

his problem has been confidence more than all else at the highest level he’s not backing himself

I don't think he actually looked that great even then tbh, looked bit a forced. I'd like to see him look like he's batting for WA, as that's how he's scored bulk runs. If he goes down the aggressive route I think he'll end up with a mid-30s average rather than a potential 40+.

 

[honestbharani]

http://instagr.am/p/C1byjLRtZ3K/


#moralvictory, the Pak way

 

[Starfighter]

http://instagr.am/p/C1byjLRtZ3K/


#moralvictory, the Pak way

Unfortunately, 'enough positives' does not, in fact, outweigh 'dropping straightforward chances'.

 

[TheJediBrah]

2023 the year of delusional losing teams

 

[trundler]

Frustrating to have another match dropped in the field. Fielding was immaculate in the last test (against SL) series but any time there's any pressure on the fielding unit, it crumbles. A tale as old as time. So glad that Mir Hamza had his moment in the sun after toiling away in domestix for years though

 

[GotSpin]

I wouldn't be fussed with that either, on current demonstrated ability, though as I said I have doubts Morris will stand up over the long term. It'd be nice to another potential express bowler emerge soon, as Meredith hasn't developed.

Marsh vs Green is interesting. Marsh clearly deserves the spot on batting atm, though IMO Green's bowling has a much higher ceiling. I don't want Green playing tests until they can fit him in the team without ruining him by making him bat unnaturally. Contrary to what TJB says, there's no right way to bat 6. Imran Khan had plenty of success at 6 and 7 striking at 48, Trevor Bailey had a good record at 7 striking at about 30. But there is clearly an expectation in Australian cricket atm that no. 6s have to score very quickly. I'd rather look on Green as a future Smith replacement, or maybe no. 5. I could see a future top order like opener 1- opener 2 - Labuschagne - Green - Head - Hardie - keeper, or something along those lines.

Considering the age of the batting line I think Labu just needs to open up and Green slots into the middle order. Harris, Bancroft and Renshaw are all proven failures and we’re going to be approaching a situation where 6 out of the 7 will retire at the same time

Head doesn’t have long in this world either unfortunately