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***Official*** Pakistan in Australia 2023/24

Flem274*

123/5
That was a really good days play for the neutrals. Aussie still well on top, but it was far from a boring procession.
Hasan was bowling so well in the early sessions too (and in innings #1). Conditioning seems....suboptimal.
It's a shame because earlier in his career he was notable for maintaining his intensity through a series.
 

Nintendo

Cricketer Of The Year
Plenty of time in the game, big early collapse, then marsh was smashing at the other end. Not like smith was leaving half volley's over and over ffs.
 

kyear2

International Coach
That technique looks worse with each replay. Lol at second slip too.

Like, it's not even that teams need their slip fielders to be mark waugh. Merely below average would be enough to win games and Pakistan can't even manage that.
I don't know, kinda disagree with this and possibly one of the reasons why the standard is the way it is. What's acceptable 2 out of 4? You may not need Mark Waugh, but they would have had a much better chance to have won the game if they did.

It's just the overall level of professionalism, even in the reviews. The difference between how Australia does it compared to South Africa yesterday was startling. I don't know, but make the slips a genuine priority and these scenarios wouldn't occur. But taking the position that even below average is good enough, doesn't help the situation.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Does knocks like today enhance or hurt Smith's perception, if not legacy.

Commentators waxing poetically about his grit and determination, but today was genuinely difficult to watch and even rotating the strike better would have been beneficial and not allowing himself to be bogged down to that extent.
 

OverratedSanity

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I don't know, kinda disagree with this and possibly one of the reasons why the standard is the way it is. What's acceptable 2 out of 4? You may not need Mark Waugh, but they would have had a much better chance to have won the game if they did.
Below average was an exaggeration.

Overall though I do think merely decent slip fielders are good enough in the vast majority of circumstances. When there are 3-4 slips packed in, the majority of chances that go to guys at first and second slip aren't going to be that difficult. Shane Warne, for example, is someone who I'd classify as merely pretty good rather than anywhere close to the Waugh tier and Australia managed just fine because of the number of chances their bowlers created.

An elite cordon turning half chances into wickets obviously provides that extra something that raises a team's ceiling, but that benefit is less than the detriment to a team caused by a poor cordon like Pakistan's.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Below average was an exaggeration.

Overall though I do think merely decent slip fielders are good enough in the vast majority of circumstances. When there are 3-4 slips packed in, the majority of chances that go to guys at first and second slip aren't going to be that difficult. Shane Warne, for example, is someone who I'd classify as merely pretty good rather than anywhere close to the Waugh tier and Australia managed just fine because of the number of chances their bowlers created.

An elite cordon turning half chances into wickets obviously provides that extra something that raises a team's ceiling, but that benefit is less than the detriment to a team caused by a poor cordon like Pakistan's.
Exactly, a merely competent cordon is enough to stem the damage. Most catches in slip are regulation. The problem comes when these regulation chances go down. The really difficult ones are good to have but even without them, Pakistan can win if their overall fielding isn't atrocious.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Below average was an exaggeration.

Overall though I do think merely decent slip fielders are good enough in the vast majority of circumstances. When there are 3-4 slips packed in, the majority of chances that go to guys at first and second slip aren't going to be that difficult. Shane Warne, for example, is someone who I'd classify as merely pretty good rather than anywhere close to the Waugh tier and Australia managed just fine because of the number of chances their bowlers created.

An elite cordon turning half chances into wickets obviously provides that extra something that raises a team's ceiling, but that benefit is less than the detriment to a team caused by a poor cordon like Pakistan's.
We've had this conversation before, so wouldn't drag it out.

I don't think that merely decent cuts it, the same way merely decent cuts it for the batting or bowling if you want to be a great team.

The easiest catches normally go to first slip (with the degree of difficulty generally increasing as you go out), plus the can be protected to a limited degree by a great keeper and or 2nd slip. And yes, Shane was somewhere between ordinary, decent and good, but was surrounded by excellent to superb. Plus when Hayden replaced him for that one year, the standard was drastically improved.
And yes, it was made easier by the number of chances that great attack created, but what if they didn't have such a good attack or faced stronger opposition. Basically the same argument you use when I say that the great Aussie and WI teams didn't have or needed a great no. 8.

And yes the ability to take half chances and blinders does raise a team's ceiling, and similarly a poor one dooms a team to mediocrity.

Just saying it's more important than many gives it credit for.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
Does knocks like today enhance or hurt Smith's perception, if not legacy.

Commentators waxing poetically about his grit and determination, but today was genuinely difficult to watch and even rotating the strike better would have been beneficial and not allowing himself to be bogged down to that extent.

He does deserve credit for trying to stick it out but he looked an absolute shambles
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Poor start from Hasan. Looked innocuous.

Imagine if they'd had Carey in facing a ball less than 20 overs old yesterday.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That was really weird, and does nothing to reduce my conviction that they need a higher frame rate for those reviews.
 

morgieb

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Yeah can't overturn it. Would've been interesting to see what would've happened if it wasn't given out, though.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If you look at the side on replay you can see the ball was clearly in front of the bat in the prior frame and behind it in the one with the noise. I think it probably hit the back edge but when the ball's moved 25 or so cm between frames it certainly leaves a lot of room for doubt.
 

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