WTC 2021 Final vs 2023 ODI WC Final

[shortpitched713]

I promise this is nothing personal, and the only thread I will post along the lines of "gloating", given that Pakistan was ass almost this whole tournament.

Anyway, I think World Cup was definitely a big choke, and worse than 2023 WTC because in that I think Australia is genuinely the better Test team, especially so at that time.

However this ODI World Cup Final India was clearly the best ODI side, and in 2021 India was clearly the best Test side in the world, so both truly qualify as chokes. But which was worse? And are India now "chokers", of the caliber of South Africa since readmission (asides for a brief period of Test dominance in the 2010s) ?

 

[GIMH]

I don’t personally think it was a ‘choke’ as to me that downplays how effective the execution from Australia was. But I dislike the term, and bottlejob etc, in most uses. So probably not worth debating.

Of the two this loss is surely the worst though? NZ were a cracking side in 21 and in conditions that slightly favoured them I’d say. India were at home against an Australia side that nobody seemed to fancy pre-tournament, which maybe shows what we all know, but still.

 

[Athlai]

CW is obsessed with throwing around the term "choke" as some kind of gotcha shitpost.

India were the best team throughout the majority of this world cup, but did show a few signs of weaknesses. Australia's (very good) bowlers got the ball to reverse which presented some of the harder first innings batting conditions seen in the World Cup and they posted a subpar score when India's weak tail was exposed.

"Choking" should be reserved for giant blunders, mental breakdowns, undeserved collapses or when the odds are 90%+ in your favour and you give it away.

India just weren't the best team on the day.

South Africa who have the historic tag fumbled needing

1992- 22 off 13 (technically not their fault that the rain made this 22 off 1 but still makes a later one more painful)
1999 - 1 off 4
2003 - 1 off 1 (Boucher playing the dotball not knowing the Duckworth Lewis calculation at the time)
2007 - getting rolled in the first 10 overs
2011 - being 108-2 chasing 222 and losing
2015 - dropped catches letting NZ chase 293 in 43 overs

 

[TheJediBrah]

To respond to this somewhat seriously, the ODI WC is way worse.

The WTC final (both of them) were in English conditions against SENA teams, which inherently gives them a bit of a hand over India.

Whereas the World Cup final in India, on a slow pitch, was in a tournament essentially rigged, as much as you could, for India to win it. That was definitely a worse loss

 

[honestbharani]

was in a tournament essentially rigged

Copium continues for sucking in the BG.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Copium continues for sucking in the BG.

I don't actually see it tbh other than the pitch switching controversy, just repeating the general consensus going around

If they really wanted to rig it they could have done more, and gotten away with it too

 

[honestbharani]

I don't actually see it tbh other than the pitch switching controversy, just repeating the general consensus going around

If they really wanted to rig it they could have done more, and gotten away with it too

Cope harder

 

[TheJediBrah]

Cope harder

Salt's clogging up your eyes bro I'm agreeing with you

 

[honestbharani]

Salt's clogging up your eyes bro I'm agreeing with you

 

[TheJediBrah]

this doesn't even make sense lol

 

[honestbharani]

this doesn't even make sense lol

Just like your posts, and your face

 

[Burgey]

They didn't choke. They were beaten by a better, more experienced big-game team which had good plans and executed them nearly perfectly. Choking would imply they had the winning of the game and pissed it away. Aside from the first ten overs, they were behind all game. They didn't choke so much as they were strangled.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I promise this is nothing personal, and the only thread I will post along the lines of "gloating", given that Pakistan was ass almost this whole tournament.

Anyway, I think World Cup was definitely a big choke, and worse than 2023 WTC because in that I think Australia is genuinely the better Test team, especially so at that time.

However this ODI World Cup Final India was clearly the best ODI side, and in 2021 India was clearly the best Test side in the world, so both truly qualify as chokes. But which was worse? And are India now "chokers", of the caliber of South Africa since readmission (asides for a brief period of Test dominance in the 2010s) ?

India didn't choke in either. Australia 2023 and NZ 2021 were both relentless in the field led by quality pace attacks, used conditions and good field placements, and had a key match winning partnership after early wobbles in their respective run chases.

 

[trundler]

Yeah I don't think this was a choke. Australia just got lucky with the conditions. Reverse the toss decision and you reverse the result.

 

[Sunil1z]

Yeah I don't think this was a choke. Australia just got lucky with the conditions. Reverse the toss decision and you reverse the result.

Imo , then this loss should be 100 % on Team management. If you don’t know how to bat on these tracks , then don’t ask for it .

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah I don't think this was a choke. Australia just got lucky with the conditions. Reverse the toss decision and you reverse the result.

lol how are you even more sooky about this than any of the Indian brahs

 

[trundler]

lol how are you even more sooky about this than any of the Indian brahs

?
That's just an accurate description of what happened

 

[Victor Ian]

Yeah I don't think this was a choke. Australia just got lucky with the conditions. Reverse the toss decision and you reverse the result.

This is not true. If you reversed the toss, Sharma batted and it's the same. If you reversed Cummins choosing to bowl, then Warner didn't get out with all that swing and put on a 250 run partnership with Head, who then had another 200 run partnership with Marsh.
Then Starc came in with all that early movement and took three wickets in his first spell, while Hazelwood took 2. India went into their shells trying to keep the tail from being exposed and were all out for 121. However, Joel Wilson wrongly adjudicated Kohli stumped to Maxwell, so I'll give India that.

 

[TheJediBrah]

?
That's just an accurate description of what happened

It's wrong and it doesn't get any less wrong when you keep repeating it

Reverse the toss and India get demolished in the night session with the new ball and you would be saying the exact same thing "Toss decided the game when Aus batted first"

Even if you were right, which you're not, it would still be some pretty pathetic whinging that wouldn't look good on anyone

 

[trundler]

It's wrong and it doesn't get any less wrong when you keep repeating it

Reverse the toss and India get demolished in the night session with the new ball and you would be saying the exact same thing "Toss decided the game when Aus batted first"

lmao no. Australia's fragile middle order gets exposed and they get out for 180 odd. Sharma kills that with his opening burst and it gets chased in 40 overs because there's no reverse or spin in the second innings