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Keith Miller vs Vivian Richards
- Thread starter Adorable Asshole
- Start date
ataraxia
International Coach
Agreed. It's far and away better.
trundler
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So close to approaching the point! You know he's both of those things together (as suggested by the and operator), right? That makes him a top 5 cricketer of all time pretty easily.
No it doesn’t. You can’t just arithmetically add the two.
ataraxia
International Coach
why not?
Because the best specialists add a degree of irreplaceable value.
Saying Kieth Miller is better than Richards is like saying Tony Greig is better than Gower. It’s statistical masturbation that doesn’t play out in the real world
OverratedSanity
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Wait what, surely Tony Greig better than Gower is a totally defensible position.
ataraxia
International Coach
Ok, then account for that.
Lamb + Akhtar is better than a Viv-esque 50-averaging bat, and is also better than a 60-averaging bat and comfortably, if you offer no other reason why we can't arithmetically add the two and say 37 + 45ish = 82 and it's clear that no batter bar Bradman is superior to Miller as a batter alone, unless your irreplacable value is worth more than 20 runs an innings.
I'm not at all saying I agree with that system but yours is a terrible argument against it.
trundler
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Yet in the Root v Stokes thread you're arguing Stokes is more valuable than his stats. It just seems like you have your favourites and want to put them on a pedestal. Miller's value isn't in the numbers anyway. Having a guy who puts up series where he contributes with bat and ball together like that is invaluable and a unicorn in cricket history. I don't fully agree with summing up individual disciplines either but Miller being overrated because of pretty numbers is just not true.
That is pretty hypocritical of me. Fair poin6.
If he bowled so much more how come he took so many fewer wickets per match
Coronis
International Coach
He didn’t when they were actually playing together.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Nope, that wasn't your argument - you asked why his captains gave him fewer overs to bowl than Benaud and Davo. And when pointed out that this was incorrect, instead of acknowledging the mistake you just asked this different question. Which was also incorrect.
Even when you move your own goalposts, you're still wrong. It's quite a talent.
QUOTE="The Sean, post: 5088814, member: 9747"]
Nope, that wasn't your argument - you asked why his captains gave him fewer overs to bowl than Benaud and Davo. And when pointed out that this was incorrect, instead of acknowledging the mistake you just asked this different question. Which was also incorrect.
Even when you move your own goalposts, you're still wrong. It's quite a talent.
[/QUOTE]
Getting riled up at facing the fact that Keith Miller is a post war Chris Cairns… or Ravi Shastri
Nope, that wasn't your argument - you asked why his captains gave him fewer overs to bowl than Benaud and Davo. And when pointed out that this was incorrect, instead of acknowledging the mistake you just asked this different question. Which was also incorrect.
Even when you move your own goalposts, you're still wrong. It's quite a talent.
[/QUOTE]
Getting riled up at facing the fact that Keith Miller is a post war Chris Cairns… or Ravi Shastri
ataraxia
International Coach
Haha I'd never in the world guess that The Sean would get riled up at comparing his total hero, who also happens to be the 5th greatest cricketer of all time, to Ravi Shastri.
Greater than Warne, Mcgrath, Border, Ponting, Smith, Chappell, Trumper, Gilchrist. Ha.
BazBall21
International Captain
Gower is better; look at Grieg's age curve in tests. Miller had a long enough career though so it's a disingenuous comparison to bring him down.
BazBall21
International Captain
Yep
ataraxia
International Coach
I don't think you quite realise how highly rated in his time Miller was, seen beyond his statistics. He was the Botham before Botham in that respect (but obvs a tier above).
The opinion that Trumper > Miller comfortably is something of a unicorn.