Dale Steyn vs Viv Richards

[PlayerComparisons]

You basically said outside of 1976. CW has a weird kink for downgrading Viv cause of his concentrated peak

I just found it interesting. Of course it should be included

 

[kyear2]

Viv was not the greatest player in the past 40 years, that's almost laughable, but he was an elite batsman who struck actual fear in the opposition and the longer he was at the crease, the further the game galloped away from the opposition. He didn't stat pad or play for himself, and the same way that's used as a deduction from the likes of Kallis, Chanderpaul and Boycott, it's a massive plus for IVA.
When he got going, he took the game away from the opposition, and he set the tone for his batting lineup.

And please for a moment, remember the bowlers and conditions he faced. England and NZ were helpful, Pakistan had Imran, then Waqar, Australia had Lillee and Thompson, NZ Hadlee, India the quartet. He never played minnows to boost his stats like every other batsman in that top tier bar Lara

That being said, Marshall, McGrath, Imran, Smith all have greater claims than Viv, especially the first 3.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Viv was great, but he averaged 47 and scored 4 tons in Australia. He was even better than those statistics indicate but the idea that a statistical record like that is some extraordinary achievement that makes everything else unworthy of comparison is some real BS. Viv's record in England is head and shoulders above most players, his record in Australia is not.

Plus, most of what you said there for Viv also applies to Steyn. 08-09 where they dethroned Australia was the single most important series win in SA's history. The series in 2012 cemented them as the undisputed best team in the world again. He took a 10fer and scored a 76 in a partnership that brought SA back from a hopeless situation and won them their first series down under. It might be the single greatest all round performance in a game anyone's had in Australia.

Head and shoulders above most. God yes. Head and shoulders above everyone. Nope. Tendulkar and a few are pretty close.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Viv was not the greatest player in the past 40 years, that's almost laughable, but he was an elite batsman who struck actual fear in the opposition and the longer he was at the crease, the further the game galloped away from the opposition. He didn't stat pad or play for himself, and the same way that's used as a deduction from the likes of Kallis, Chanderpaul and Boycott, it's a massive plus for IVA.
When he got going, he took the game away from the opposition, and he set the tone for his batting lineup.

And please for a moment, remember the bowlers and conditions he faced. England and NZ were helpful, Pakistan had Imran, then Waqar, Australia had Lillee and Thompson, NZ Hadlee, India the quartet. He never played minnows to boost his stats like every other batsman in that top tier bar Lara

That being said, Marshall, McGrath, Imran, Smith all have greater claims than Viv, especially the first 3.

You mean Wasim? Because Waqar debut in 89. He hardly faced him.

Also Smith is interesting. Hadlee should be there.

 

[kyear2]

I recall him facing both, but I could be wrong. I also remember fearing Waqar more initially.

 

[Prince EWS]

Viv was great, but he averaged 47 and scored 4 tons in Australia. He was even better than those statistics indicate but the idea that a statistical record like that is some extraordinary achievement that makes everything else unworthy of comparison is some real BS. Viv's record in England is head and shoulders above most players, his record in Australia is not.

Plus, most of what you said there for Viv also applies to Steyn. 08-09 where they dethroned Australia was the single most important series win in SA's history. The series in 2012 cemented them as the undisputed best team in the world again. He took a 10fer and scored a 76 in a partnership that brought SA back from a hopeless situation and won them their first series down under. It might be the single greatest all round performance in a game anyone's had in Australia.

People underestimate how hard it was to bowl in Australia during Steyn's career. His record in Australia was ****ing awesome in context.

 

[Coronis]

You have to be joking. Viv is the best visiting batsmen in Aus.

All I’ve said is Steyn is not as good as Viv in Aus.

Mhm mhm.

People underestimate how hard it was to bowl in Australia during Steyn's career. His record in Australia was ****ing awesome in context.

fwiw the only other overseas pacers to average below 30 in Australia during Steyn’s career are Bumrah, Tremlett, Bravo, Bresnan and Rabada. (min 15 wickets) Steyn’s last tour was in 15/16 and Bumrah’s tour was 3 years after that.

 

[Prince EWS]

Mhm mhm.



fwiw the only other overseas pacers to average below 30 in Australia during Steyn’s career are Bumrah, Tremlett, Bravo, Bresnan and Rabada. (min 15 wickets) Steyn’s last tour was in 15/16 and Bumrah’s tour was 3 years after that.

Summers of Tremlett/Bresnan (more bowler friendly than average) and Bumrah (Smith/Warner suspensions) were outliers as well.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Summers of Tremlett/Bresnan (more bowler friendly than average) and Bumrah (Smith/Warner suspensions) were outliers as well.

The 2008-09 series where Steyn picked up 18 wickets in 3 matches, Johnson did nearly the same for Aus. So don’t think those pitches were exactly batting friendly. And you‘re not saying that Steyn was better or as good in Aus as Ambrose and Hadlee? Cause there‘s no visiting bat to Aus, who’s properly better than Viv. However even if I agree Viv>=Steyn in Aus, still Steyn has a poor record in Eng. Viv was brilliant everywhere.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

The 2008-09 series where Steyn picked up 18 wickets in 3 matches, Johnson did nearly the same for Aus. So don’t think those pitches were exactly batting friendly.

great logic

 

[Coronis]

The 2008-09 series where Steyn picked up 18 wickets in 3 matches, Johnson did nearly the same for Aus. So don’t think those pitches were exactly batting friendly. And you‘re not saying that Steyn was better or as good in Aus as Ambrose and Hadlee? Cause there‘s no visiting bat to Aus, who’s properly better than Viv. However even if I agree Viv>=Steyn in Aus, still Steyn has a poor record in Eng. Viv was brilliant everywhere.

lol

 

[ataraxia]

Botham > Tendulkar but also Viv > Imran is ludicrous but quintessentially English.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

lol

If you include Viv's WSC stats, he averages 50+ in Australia, with an SR of nearly 75.
There's no visiting bat who maintained as good a record as Viv in Australia(at least post war), given the quantity of matches played across the years, and the combination of facing one of the great Aussie bowling lineups and horrible batting pitches. Also has a pretty great record across grounds there. Whereas with Steyn, there are bowlers in Australia like Hadlee who were definitively better.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

People underestimate how hard it was to bowl in Australia during Steyn's career. His record in Australia was ****ing awesome in context.

Even if I accept that I'm wrong here, Viv is still better than Steyn in Australia. And Steyn has a poor record in Eng, which Viv has no where.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Switched to Steyn(this is the closest battle ever tho). Viv for me is just behind Tendulkar and Hobbs. Steyn just behind Marshall

 

[Thala_0710]

This is close. Going with Steyn though

 

[kyear2]

What leadership? Viv's leadership is even a bigger myth than Imran's or Waugh's leadership.

Lol, wouldn't argue with any of that.

Viv primarily ruled by intimation.

 

[DrWolverine]

At worst Steyn is top 5 fast bowler

Viv is more iconic but not Top 5 for me

 

[subshakerz]

Richards rather easily.

 

[subshakerz]

Lol, wouldn't argue with any of that.

Viv primarily ruled by intimation.

Viv was a good captain all said and done.