Pool C - Wales, Australia, Fiji, Georgia, Portugal

[Molehill]

Let’s not get revisionist, Jones was a great coach for England.

He was up until the 2019 World Cup (and he managed to screw up the Final). There's been a steady downward trend since then.

 

[Molehill]

Sorry to barge in, guys, but before we forget,

Well played Wales!

View attachment 37343

It's just hard to know how well Wales did play (much like England against Argentina), the opposition was so poor. But they theoretically have the easiest of all the QF's and will no doubt be a well organised unit for Ireland/NZ to have to break down in the semi.

 

[social]

Sorry to barge in, guys, but before we forget,

Well played Wales!

View attachment 37343

Wales were good & well coached

Donaldson isn’t a 10 and is a poor defender

Wales exploited him with the first play of the game from a set play

That was no fluke

 

[GIMH]

Hurling is at least as popular as rugby too, though with completely different demographics. In any case I think the benefits of a rich sporting culture outweigh the competition for players.

It really doesn’t feel so politically complex. But now that you mention it, that might be because Irish rugby has done such a good job of managing it. Other parts of Irish society wouldn’t be mature enough to drop the flag and anthem to make it work.

Cricket does the same, right? Granted, more niche.

 

[Uppercut]

Cricket does the same, right? Granted, more niche.

Yeah. Its historical base is in the north though, so there’s not really any question of embracing Irish nationalism. And as you say it’s also just not as big a deal.

Rugby in Ireland had to develop its own politically neutral identity. It’s why we have Ireland’s Call. It’s a template for what Republicans would need to do to achieve a United Ireland, but they haven’t realised that, or won’t accept it.

 

[Aritro]

I paid $31 for a Stan Sports subscription for this month to watch the rugby world cup and then remembered that I don't really like or know anything about rugby. Or at least not enough to watch matches in the middle of the night.

How are the Wallabies going. We must have won the whole thing by now, yeah? Ok, good. Good to hear.

 

[Aritro]

Rugby in Ireland had to develop its own politically neutral identity. It’s why we have Ireland’s Call. It’s a template for what Republicans would need to do to achieve a United Ireland, but they haven’t realised that, or won’t accept it.

Can you explain a bit more about what this might look like? Fair enough if you cbf, or don't think it's worth having to engage with what might follow though lol

 

[Uppercut]

Can you explain a bit more about what this might look like? Fair enough if you cbf, or don't think it's worth having to engage with what might follow though lol

Well, it just involves redefining what being Irish means so that it's palatable to moderate unionists in the north. There'd need to be a new flag and a new anthem. The Irish language movement would need to go into reverse. Pro-IRA sentiment would need to disappear completely. Essentially the literal opposite of whatever it is that the United Ireland movement is doing right now.

In its place they would need to emphasise elements of shared culture - the things they feel they have in common with northern unionists. There must be some, given that the entire argument is that these people are, despite their repeated violent assertions to the contrary, Irish. The Irish rugby team is actually as good an example as any, but it is very upper/middle class.

 

[Tom Flint]

It may be played by upper middle class but it is watched and supported by vast majority of all Irish people.
I work for an Irish company in London and they have always been invested in the team and sport. They whole Irish community is loving it atm.

 

[Aritro]

Well, it just involves redefining what being Irish means so that it's palatable to moderate unionists in the north. There'd need to be a new flag and a new anthem. The Irish language movement would need to go into reverse. Pro-IRA sentiment would need to disappear completely. Essentially the literal opposite of whatever it is that the United Ireland movement is doing right now.

In its place they would need to emphasise elements of shared culture - the things they feel they have in common with northern unionists. There must be some, given that the entire argument is that these people are, despite their repeated violent assertions to the contrary, Irish. The Irish rugby team is actually as good an example as any, but it is very upper/middle class.

I'm all for a new flag for Ireland because it's a totally unremarkable, generic tricolour blandness. It should be changed anyway because it's boring af.

For the united Ireland flag I would recommend a design which incorporates symbols from both sides of the partition, such this one which depicts the red hand of Ulster playing the harp of Erin. I've taken the liberty of designing it myself.



Although for the sake of decency, it might be necessary to cover Erin's bared breasts. In which case, it would be symbolic as well as practical to go with something like this:

 

[Niall]

It may be played by upper middle class but it is watched and supported by vast majority of all Irish people.
I work for an Irish company in London and they have always been invested in the team and sport. They whole Irish community is loving it atm.

Yeah the term "West Brit" used to be a much more common term for rugby fans down south, but the contempt towards it just isn't their in the real world. It obviously helps they have done really well in the six nations for so long and so much of it been on free to air and RTE making games the centrepiece of their coverage.

Ireland's call is a perfectly neutral song, but its very boring, but heh can't win whatever you do, supposedly plenty of people crying about "Zombie" been an unofficial anthem for the team.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1705687579943661703

 

[Uppercut]

It may be played by upper middle class but it is watched and supported by vast majority of all Irish people.
I work for an Irish company in London and they have always been invested in the team and sport. They whole Irish community is loving it atm.

Yeah, it is quite popular.

It’s just hard to overstate how big a role the GAA plays in Irish society. In some ways it’s replaced the Catholic Church. Lots of people watch and enjoy rugby but it doesn’t have such deep roots.

 

[Tom Flint]

Yep the kids will still be bought up playing gaa but the pubs will be packed for the rugby games, they are packed for gaa too.
For the first time I would say there is more enthusiasm around this world cup amongst the Irish as there is for the all Ireland final.

 

[Ali TT]

If there an historic comparison for Australia to cling to, it might be England in 1999. The side of Carling etc had gone and we were rebuilding for several years. We got spanked 76-0 in Brisbane in 1998 and were way off the pace against NZ and SA in 99. Five years later we'd won in NZ and Australia, the GS and the WC.

I don't know if the talent available in Australia matches what England were bringing through back then though.

 

[the big bambino]

If a new Irish flag doesn’t make use of a frothy Guinness then it will be an opportunity missed.

 

[Molehill]

If there an historic comparison for Australia to cling to, it might be England in 1999. The side of Carling etc had gone and we were rebuilding for several years. We got spanked 76-0 in Brisbane in 1998 and were way off the pace against NZ and SA in 99. Five years later we'd won in NZ and Australia, the GS and the WC.

I don't know if the talent available in Australia matches what England were bringing through back then though.

Quite strong similarities to England post 2007. Made the final then, a poor team knocked out in the QF's in 2011 and then didn't make it out of the pool stages in 2015 (admittedly choked against the Welsh rather than got thrashed by them). It's the same run Australia have had since the 2015 Final. However, there were signs then that there were young stars coming through, especially in the pack. I just don't see that same level of potential talent in the Aussie set up.

 

[social]

Quite strong similarities to England post 2007. Made the final then, a poor team knocked out in the QF's in 2011 and then didn't make it out of the pool stages in 2015 (admittedly choked against the Welsh rather than got thrashed by them). It's the same run Australia have had since the 2015 Final. However, there were signs then that there were young stars coming through, especially in the pack. I just don't see that same level of potential talent in the Aussie set up.

Very few similarities actually as English rugby didn’t have to compete with other sports & has massive participation as a result so only a matter of time before they improved

 

[Tom Flint]

Very few similarities actually as English rugby didn’t have to compete with other sports & has massive participation as a result so only a matter of time before they improved

Have to correct here, participation in England has dropped off a cliff. Regular schools now don't enforce rugby in p.e compared to when I went to school. Parents and children now given a choice so most who have no previous involvement or family interest choose they would rather not get thrown about in the mud in December. Most of my school team were more academic lads who weren't naturally built for football/ athletics but found their physique enabled them to be good at rugby. Had they not been told they are playing rugby in p.e they would never had tried it and most likely been playing ping pong indoors with the youngsters these days. Most amateur clubs had 3 teams now they are struggling to get 2 out. I play at a lower level and at least eist half our games are concerned by oppo through not enough players or we even up the teams to play 13-13 or something like that.
And it does compete with league of course but that has always been the case and isn't the issue

 

[Molehill]

Have to correct here, participation in England has dropped off a cliff. Regular schools now don't enforce rugby in p.e compared to when I went to school. Parents and children now given a choice so most who have no previous involvement or family interest choose they would rather not get thrown about in the mud in December. Most of my school team were more academic lads who weren't naturally built for football/ athletics but found their physique enabled them to be good at rugby. Had they not been told they are playing rugby in p.e they would never had tried it and most likely been playing ping pong indoors with the youngsters these days. Most amateur clubs had 3 teams now they are struggling to get 2 out. I play at a lower level and at least eist half our games are concerned by oppo through not enough players or we even up the teams to play 13-13 or something like that.
And it does compete with league of course but that has always been the case and isn't the issue

Yeah, I'm afraid that's pretty wrong from @social. England are down to just 10 professional clubs now (3 have gone bust in the last 18 months). Much like cricket, so much participation seems to depend on the Private Schools.

And to say it doesn't have to compete with other sports, are you aware how big Football is in England and how much money there is in it? 92 Professional Clubs, and even those in the lowest tier are earning over £100k a year. The top clubs grab all the talented kids from as early as 6 onwards, rugby will not see them at all.

 

[Uppercut]

I’ve no reason to think social’s point about Australian rugby is wrong, but I don’t know why he insists on making it by talking about sporting cultures in other countries that he knows absolutely nothing about.