Sunil Gavaskar vs Len Hutton

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Who is the second greatest opener of all time?

Hutton
Hobbs very close though.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Gavaskar
Hutton
Hobbs
Trumper
Barry Richards

(Excluding WG)

 

[shortpitched713]

Gavaskar
Hayden
Hutton
Sehwag

 

[kyear2]

The two of you really do entertain me, thanks for that

 

[trundler]

The two of you really do entertain me, thanks for that

Gavaskar over Hutton isn't ridiculous at all. Hayden over Hutton is.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Gavaskar
Hayden
Hutton
Sehwag

Sehwag > Sachin?

 

[ataraxia]

Hayden
Hutton

what the actual **** mate. I feel like you'd actually rank Hutton higher if he were a MOB, like nearly Weekes-level.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Sehwag > Sachin?

Nah he has Sachin between Hayden and sehwag

 

[kyear2]

Gavaskar over Hutton isn't ridiculous at all. Hayden over Hutton is.

Hayden is so far off these guys, that it invalidates everything else.

Pap is also independent in this thought process, with some interesting perspectives.

On Gavaskar, he makes my all time team with Hutton, just feel like his record is a bit less than it appears on the surface

 

[the big bambino]

All of this is very debatable. The standard of pace bowling has gone up and down across the generations in individual countries and across the world. For instance, the Indian opening bowlers of the 1930s (Amar Singh, Mohammad Nissar) would have been contenders for an Indian ATG side until very recently, and the English attack of the 1950s (Bedser, Trueman, Tyson, Statham) is probably their best ever.

Modern cricket has certainly seem the introduction of more international teams but with more teams you also run the risk of introducing new sides too early, which gives modern players the chance to feast on really weak sides that were simply not allocated Test status in earlier eras. For instance, the Bangladesh side of the 2000s was possibly the worst Test team ever, with the possible exception of 19th century South Africa who played far fewer Tests.

Your comments about part time professionals are simply ill informed and incorrect. For instance, in the 1930s and for a couple more decades, English county sides played 32 county matches a year. This works out at 96 days cricket a year. Far from being part time, this is actually more days of county cricket than they play today, even allowing for one day, T20 and hundred matches.

Your comments about smaller audiences are also incorrect, at least in terms of people attending matches in then established cricketing nations at the time. For instance, bank holiday county championship matches in the inter war period often saw audiences of 20,000 in the biggest grounds. This never happens today, except on Lords cup final days. Sheffield Shield matches in Australia also saw similar audiences for the biggest matches, which never happens today. Obviously with television and internet, more people view matches today, but this is simply a function of the availability of access. Certainly, more people in England and Australia played, were interested in and made an effort to follow cricket back then than they do now.

If the standard of cricket improved so much in the 1970s, why were several long established players with experience going back many years previously, able to continue to succeed just as well in the 1970s as they had previously? For instance, Geoff Boycott, who first played Tests in 1964, made 3,806 runs at 55.97 in the 1970s, which is well above his overall career record. Ian Redpath, who also first played Tests in 1964, made 2,861 runs @ 50.19 in the 1970s, again well above his overall career record.

That the 1970s saw a revolution in professionalism and a huge improvement in overall standard is your own personal opinion. It can be debated either way and is far from a widely accepted truism or an established fact.

The post of someone who actually knows their stuff as opposed to imposing their opinion. Also Clive Lloyd was competitive right up to his retirement at 40. Change is incremental and improvements accrete - which is why players have 20 year careers. They can adapt and remain successful even though they are playing at a higher standard while being simultaneously in the twilight of their careers.

But of course players eventually retire. As time goes the small accumulations really amount to something vast. So the belief is players who played many decades ago couldn't cut it now. When the expanse of their entire careers proved they could and did keep up with advances in standards.

 

[BazBall21]

On output, it's Hutton. His record is near McGrath/Marshall level spotless. The argument for Gavaskar is he did face a stronger overall range of opposition with great success too.

 

[shortpitched713]

Sehwag > Sachin?

As an opener? Maybe. As a batsman, no.

 

[shortpitched713]

what the actual **** mate. I feel like you'd actually rank Hutton higher if he were a MOB, like nearly Weekes-level.

What is a MOB?

 

[BazBall21]

What is a MOB?

the Mafia or a similar criminal organization.

 

[ataraxia]

What is a MOB?

As an American you really should know, what with the prevalence of violent behaviour throughout history.

Spoiler

middle-order bat

 

[shortpitched713]

Nah, Hutton is ranked lower than other openers and more modern MOBs, because I don't buy into the quality of the early career bowling he faced.

 

[ataraxia]

Nah, Hutton is ranked lower than other openers and more modern MOBs, because I don't buy into the quality of the early career bowling he faced.

I mean it's a little weak, but he still faced O'Reilly, McCormick, Cowie, and Martindale in his four pre-war series.

 

[Slifer]

I mean it's a little weak, but he still faced O'Reilly, McCormick, Cowie, and Martindale in his four pre-war series.

And after the war, at the very least he faced quality pace from Australia and spin from the WI and distinguished himself. I have no question marks over the fact that Len was an atg opener; possibly the best of them all.

 

[kyear2]

And after the war, at the very least he faced quality pace from Australia and spin from the WI and distinguished himself. I have no question marks over the fact that Len was an atg opener; possibly the best of them all.

Exactly this, after the war he faced vastly different varieties of bowling, home and away.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Gavaskar had the toughest role of all the ATG Batsmen.
Opener for Indian team, without a proper partner, in an era of Greatest and fearsome Bowlers.
And he made milestone records 30+ 100s, 10000 runs.. Etc

One of the greatest debut ever ( still standing record )
An epic performance in final match.
188 against Hadlee, Marshall and Rice in the last FC match.