Kapil Dev vs Imran Khan

[ma1978]

No they're not. Unless you think Jimmy Anderson is a greater bowler than Dale Steyn.

They somewhat bridge the gap in bowling but put Imran far ahead as a batsman. And Kapil averaged 18 with the bat after 1988 so the argument that Imran's batting AR era shouldn't count doesn't hold any weight either.

They're close as bowlers but Kapil is an insanely overrated batsman imo.

Again not what the ICC rankings say, not what observers at the time felt, and just wrong

 

[ma1978]

No they're not. Unless you think Jimmy Anderson is a greater bowler than Dale Steyn.

the difference between imran and kapil is one point of average, its much larger between steyn and jimmy. Also much bigger home / away splits in the latter case.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Kapil and Imran bowling stats are very close

Imran supporters : NO.. Imran was sub 25 avg bowler for 80% of career

Imran and Kapil averaged 29 with bat until 1988. Difference was Kapil's unreal Strike rate.

Imran supporters : NO.. You must make whole career comparison For a fair evaluation.

 

[trundler]

Kapil and Imran bowling stats are very close

Imran supporters : NO.. Imran was sub 25 avg bowler for 80% of career

Imran and Kapil averaged 29 with bat until 1988. Difference was Kapil's unreal Strike rate.

Imran supporters : NO.. You must make whole career comparison For a fair evaluation.

I never said they're not close as bowlers. The irony of this post is that you dismiss Imran's superior batting output as a "short stats boosting period" but by the same token Imran dunks on Kapil as a bowler. They're close as bowlers but Imran is a much superior batsmen. If Imran's batting AR period doesn't count then he's a much superior bowler. Pick one.

 

[subshakerz]

Kapil and Imran bowling stats are very close

Imran supporters : NO.. Imran was sub 25 avg bowler for 80% of career

Imran and Kapil averaged 29 with bat until 1988. Difference was Kapil's unreal Strike rate.

Imran supporters : NO.. You must make whole career comparison For a fair evaluation.

Ok lets put it another way:

If you select an earlier career portion, Imran is far ahead as a bowler.

If you select an entire career, Imran is far ahead as a batsman.

So you choose please because either way Kapil is behind Imran.

 

[Bolo.]

I've thought a lot about Pollock vs Flintoff as ODI cricketers. Both guns, top 10 easily for me. Pollock's bowling was marginally better but his lower economy is a tad misleading as he played a bigger percentage of his games before strike rates kicked up around 2001, and he got better bowling conditions than Flintoff at home as well. Which one was better could well come down to a marginal difference in batting.

Comparing just their batting: in a below par team where Flintoff would be comfortably one of the best two or three bats I think he would add much more value, but as the standard of the teams goes up I think the gap between Pollock's value as a finisher and Flintoff's as a middle overs innings builder really starts to close in, to the point where I think I'd rather have Pollock's batting than Flintoff's if we're talking about a good batting lineup where they're going to bat 7-8 anyway.

I think Kapil vs Imran is in some ways the 80s/90s version of that of that debate.

Pollock was a better bowler and a worse finisher than what you are suggesting.

 

[ma1978]

Ok lets put it another way:

If you select an earlier career portion, Imran is far ahead as a bowler.

If you select an entire career, Imran is far ahead as a batsman.

So you choose please because either way Kapil is behind Imran.

I feel stupider for having heard this logic

over an entire career, Kapil is a) better and b) materially more valuable

that is all

 

[ma1978]

Ok lets put it another way:

If you select an earlier career portion, Imran is far ahead as a bowler.

If you select an entire career, Imran is far ahead as a batsman.

So you choose please because either way Kapil is behind Imran.

we disagree that Imran is far ahead as a batsmab

he was basically another mudassar nazar

a replacement level ODI batsmen

10 other Pakistanis playing domestic list a could have done the same thing

 

[subshakerz]

over an entire career, Kapil is a) better and b) materially more valuable

Yet Imran has an objectively better record, including in WCs. Imran was a worldclass bowler for a long period, and Imran was a top 6 bat for a long period.

we disagree that Imran is far ahead as a batsmab

he was basically another mudassar nazar

a replacement level ODI batsmen

10 other Pakistanis playing domestic list a could have done the same thing

Yes and they all would have been better than Kapil who averaged 23 and would not be selected as a pure bat in any side.

Lol Mudassar averaged 8 runs less than Imran.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Ok lets put it another way:

If you select an earlier career portion, Imran is far ahead as a bowler.

If you select an entire career, Imran is far ahead as a batsman.

So you choose please because either way Kapil is behind Imran.

Earlier career until 1988
Imran better bowler 22 avg Vs 27
Kapil better batsman 29 at 105 SR Vs 29 avg with just 6 50+ scores in 85 innings
Overall Kapil

Late career ( 1988 onwards )
Bowling - Kapil Better 28 avg Vs 35
Batting - Imran Better 38 avg Vs 19
Overall Kapil

When played together ( Kapil debut - Imran Retirement )
Kapil Better Batsman 25 avg with superb Strike rate Vs inflated and Skewed 34 avg
Kapil Better Bowler 26 avg with no support Vs 27 avg
Overall Kapil


Earlier career Kapil Better
Late career Kapil Better
Whole career Kapil Better
When played together Kapil Better
Overall Kapil Better

Add Fielding
Kapil - ATG
Imran - Mediocre

 

[subshakerz]

Earlier career until 1988
Imran better bowler 22 avg Vs 27
Kapil better batsman 29 at 105 SR Vs 29 avg with just 6 50+ scores in 85 innings
Overall Kapil

How is Kapil better if Imran is a worldclass bowler much ahead of Kapil in that period and they are both bowling allrounders hence their major impact is bowling?

Late career ( 1988 onwards )
Bowling - Kapil Better 28 avg Vs 35
Batting - Imran Better 38 avg Vs 19
Overall Kapil

Lol what? Imran averages twice as much as Kapil with the bat. This isn't even close.

When played together ( Kapil debut - Imran Retirement )
Kapil Better Batsman 25 avg with superb Strike rate Vs inflated and Skewed 34 avg
Kapil Better Bowler 26 avg with no support Vs 27 avg
Overall Kapil

Um so you conveniently cut off Kapil's decline years yet include Imran's, and Imran is still well ahead as a bat and equal as a bowler.

This is next level stat distortion here. You actually made Imran look better.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Lol what? Imran averages twice as much as Kapil with the bat. This isn't even close.

Kapil - very good bowler + handy lower order batsman
Imran - ordinary batsman + part time bowler

 

[trundler]

Kapil - very good bowler + handy lower order batsman
Imran - ordinary batsman + part time bowler

Lmao. Imran took almost 1 wicket per match even when he was a proper middle order batsman whereas Kapil averaged under 20 with bat for a big chunk of his career. More like Kapil subpar batsman + ok bowler by the same criteria you apply to Imran.

 

[subshakerz]

Kapil - very good bowler + handy lower order batsman
Imran - ordinary batsman + part time bowler

By the standards of the late 80s early 90s, averaging 38 would put you among the top ODI batsmen in the world.

I don't mind you supporting Kapil but belittling Imran to make him look better is cheap.

 

[ataraxia]

Kapil - very good bowler + handy lower order batsman
Imran - ordinary batsman + part time bowler

For those at home, Kapil's ODI WPM was 1.124 to Imran's 1.040.

 

[subshakerz]

For those at home, Kapil's ODI WPM was 1.124 to Imran's 1.040.

Yes because Imran played 14 games in the early 80s due to shin injury as a pure bat, something Kapil couldn't do by the way. Has nothing to do with their relative bowling abilities of which Imran was clearly superior until the end of his career.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Why was Kepler Weasels in the top 5 batsmen throughout his career despite being straight up bad?


Imo, this is like Steyn and Morkel. I used to think Steyn was better in tests and Morkel was better in ODIs but really Steyn was much better in tests and still better in ODIs. The fact that Morkel wasn't near Steyn in tests made me somehow overrate him in ODIs. Same thing here.

I think Morkel was better in ODIs (not much in it though, and neither were as good as Fanie DV and Ntini anyway).

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I think you are all overstating wicket taking in ODIs. Before 2005 economy rate was vastly more important than WPM.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Lmao. Imran took almost 1 wicket per match even when he was a proper middle order batsman whereas Kapil averaged under 20 with bat for a big chunk of his career. More like Kapil subpar batsman + ok bowler by the same criteria you apply to Imran.

27 avg for an Indian pace bowler at that period is very good category
35 avg with less than 0.9 wpm is not good for a specialist bowler

 

[subshakerz]

27 avg for an Indian pace bowler at that period is very good category
35 avg with less than 0.9 wpm is not good for a specialist bowler

Imran by that stage was a batting allrounder batting in the top 4, not a specialist bowler. So taking a wicket a game as support for Wasim/Waqar while averaging 38 with the bat was very good.

Kapil was still a bowling allrounder but averaging 19 with the bat was worse.