*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Zinzan]

I'd say the opposite. He'd go on hot runs, runs of sharp starts and runs of blocking it for 15-30

That 2013-14 period is all coming back to me now when he used dot up and annoy the *** out of me.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

I'd say the opposite. He'd go on hot runs, runs of sharp starts and runs of blocking it for 15-30

Sure, he used to have hot runs of form in amongst the dire streaks. Unfortunately now it’s 95% struggles.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Guptill was one of the most talented pure hitters we've ever had and was wasted trying to be a classical top order batsman ala Williamson or Taylor. Unfortunately he probably developed with coaches in his ear every time he got out too early playing the aerial shots he was so famous for and never managed to shake that guilt. This is armchair psychology but the dude seemed to really care about batting, not sure if he had the ****-you energy to put up with scores of 10(5).

 

[Bahnz]

Was guptill an inconsistent bat when he was in his prime? I've heard of guys losing consistency as they get older, but he's on another level. Will go 5-10 game stretches on the franchise circuit not timing a ball then spank the best 100 you've ever seen. It's unbelievable.

Blocky's "Guptill has a high average but a low median and is therefore ****" argument from 2014 finally vindicated.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Guptill was pretty consistent as a test player fwiw

Consistently crap that is. Why he was persisted with for so long as a red ball player despite being pretty much useless at it I will never understand

 

[Nintendo]

Guptill was pretty consistent as a test player fwiw

Consistently crap that is. Why he was persisted with for so long as a red ball player despite being pretty much useless at it I will never understand

Has a fantastic FC record in county and PS, doesn't he? Not like NZ where swimming in test quality bats at the time.

 

[Prince EWS]

Has a fantastic FC record in county and PS, doesn't he? Not like NZ where swimming in test quality bats at the time.

His FC record was crap when he debuted, but improved a lot later.

Lack of hopeful alternatives was the main reason. There was always hope Guptill could translate his ODI form, improving domestic FC fortunes and obvious talent to Test cricket, and if he didn't he was probably performing at replacement level for most of that time anyway.

Ironically enough he was actually pretty good in his last Test (scored 72 and 29 in a 300+ run loss, top scored in the first innings and was 3 runs off top scoring in the second) and then got dropped for Jeet Raval and was never seen again.

 

[Prince EWS]

His FC record was crap when he debuted, but improved a lot later.

Lack of hopeful alternatives was the main reason. There was always hope Guptill could translate his ODI form, improving domestic FC fortunes and obvious talent to Test cricket, and if he didn't he was probably performing at replacement level for most of that time anyway.

Ironically enough he was actually pretty good in his last Test (scored 72 and 29 in a 300+ run loss, top scored in the first innings and was 3 runs off top scoring in the second) and then got dropped for Jeet Raval and was never seen again.

His first innings 72 ended in this fashion too:

46.6 has Guptill been run out at the non-strikers' end? He has! What an awful way to go. He was backing up, and having seen his partner drill a superb straight drive, he probably had the right to. But Ashwin reaches to his right, gets just enough of a deflection - only the tip of his ring finger met the ball - that made sure the ball didn't go to the boundary and instead hit the stumps

 

[Athlai]

Guptill was almost the guy

 

[wellAlbidarned]

hold on... isn't Crawley basically a properly utilised Guptill?

 

[Mike5181]

Obviously there's exceptions because he had a long career but Guptill just wasn't a high pressure player, basically any limited overs tournament he had a crap record.

 

[Bahnz]

Obviously there's exceptions because he had a long career but Guptill just wasn't a high pressure player, basically any limited overs tournament he had a crap record.

I mean he was the top run-scorer in the 2015 World Cup.

 

[Mike5181]

I mean he was the top run-scorer in the 2015 World Cup.

I said high pressure. NZ weren't losing at home to a team with three players in their top 6 averaging in the low-mid 20s like Johnson Charles, Jonathan Carter and Denesh Ramdin.

 

[Nintendo]

I said high pressure. NZ weren't losing at home to a team with three players in their top 6 averaging in the low-mid 20s like Johnson Charles, Jonathan Carter and Denesh Ramdin.

View attachment 37104

View attachment 37103

So you eliminated a 237* guptill made in a genuine knock-out game, in a WC, because the opposition have a crap batting lineup? FFS I doubt guptill rocked up that day and felt no pressure in that type of game because the windies have a poor batting lineup.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

So you include a 22 (off 22 balls) in a walk over against a terrible England side from 2015 but ignore the games against the West Indies and Bangladesh sides of 2015 in which he scored 237* and 105 and got motm despite both teans being better than England? We would've lost to Bangladesh without Guptill.

 

[SteveNZ]

Guptill was one of the most talented pure hitters we've ever had and was wasted trying to be a classical top order batsman ala Williamson or Taylor. Unfortunately he probably developed with coaches in his ear every time he got out too early playing the aerial shots he was so famous for and never managed to shake that guilt. This is armchair psychology but the dude seemed to really care about batting, not sure if he had the ****-you energy to put up with scores of 10(5).

I don't think it was coaches, he just had doubts in his game. He didn't develop as a gung-ho, uber-confident cricketer - he had to really work hard to get to where he got to. And you're right, he really cared about batting. He really wanted to be a good Test player. But that probably didn't help him at all, mentally, to get out of his own way and trust his game. He was never going to be a great Test opener with his failings outside off stump, but he could've been a very good 5. Not probably anyone's fault that he wasn't, he had to fill a gap and was brave enough to give it a crack.

 

[Mike5181]

So you eliminated a 237* guptill made in a genuine knock-out game, in a WC, because the opposition have a crap batting lineup? FFS I doubt guptill rocked up that day and felt no pressure in that type of game because the windies have a poor batting lineup.

Half the overs were bowled by Sulieman Benn, Marlon Samuels, and Darren Sammy. Respectively their averages were like 39, 45, 47. And I said in my initial post that there were exceptions. Guptill was capable of brilliance and he had like a 14 year career. I don't think it's wrong (if you have a decent sample size at least) to measure a player by their performances against the top teams in high pressure situations.

 

[SteveNZ]

So you include a 22 (off 22 balls) in a walk over against a terrible England side from 2015 but ignore the games against the West Indies and Bangladesh sides of 2015 in which he scored 237* and 105 and got motm despite both teans being better than England? We would've lost to Bangladesh without Guptill.

The idea of overlooking the Bangladesh game is outrageous. We lose that game without Gup's hundred, 100%. I can't remember whether that was a dead rubber in terms of semis, but I do remember thinking it was a great knock in the situation.

The Windies....OK he was dropped first ball, but to put an asterix on that, wowee. We're getting into crazy cynical land when we do that about the highest score in NZ ODI history, highest in World Cup history, in a quarter-final against a major nation who had just made the quarter final.

 

[NZTailender]

Guptill probably deserved a longer run at 5 but they kept returning him to open because we didn't really have anyone else and then McCullum wanted to bat at 5.

 

[Mike5181]

The idea of overlooking the Bangladesh game is outrageous. We lose that game without Gup's hundred, 100%. I can't remember whether that was a dead rubber in terms of semis, but I do remember thinking it was a great knock in the situation.

4 in each pool qualified for the quarters (even Bangladesh qualified), we were undefeated (5-0), and it was our last pool game. I'm not saying it wasn't a great innings, it was. But that's not really what I was talking about.