Asterisked cricketing victories

[Ali TT]

Meh, but at the end you couldn't really doubt they deserved it, as they won every game that mattered.

England literally didn't win the 2019 WC final.

But under the playing conditions, not winning the match was sufficient to win the tournament.

 

[loterry1994]

People can talk about England win in the world
Cup and all the circumstances and that. But New Zealand had more than enough chances to win it

1) New Zealand’s first innings total wasn’t that great the bowlers had carried them most that tournament

2) Santner for god knows what reason ducking the last ball bouncer

3) Boult stepping on the boundary for that catch which wasn’t that difficult

4) Boult bowling a terrible last over to tie the game

5) NZ batters not going aggressive enough in the super over

 

[loterry1994]

And also the way England who were one of the worse short form nations after the 2015 World Cup to becoming one of the best over the next few years after that was a crazy turn around. They for me are favourites heading into the next World Cup. They showed how Odis and t20s should be played with loading up your batting and going hard throughout the innings

 

[loterry1994]

Also what about Australia’s t20 World Cup win not saying they didn’t deserve it. But with how much the games were dependent on the toss was crazy. Think it was something like 85% teams winning while chasing

 

[Silver Silva]

New Zealand's semifinal win vs South Africa 2015.

It started with an asterisk even before the game , Kyle Abbot being dropped despite taking 9 wickets in 4 matches for Vernon Philander , a fine player in his own right but even he admitted in the aftermath that there were "decisions being made behind close doors".
I mean mentally that must have taken a huge toll on the team on the eve of such a huge match.


Then in the match itself AB De Villiers was pummeling NZ to all parts , 60 off 38 deliveries , Williamson did drop AB on 38 but well there was a lot of that going on for both teams.

SA were 216/3 in the 38th over when the rain fell and reduced the game to 43 overs ..Remember in that tournament teams were putting up monster scores towards the back end , with AB going great guns on 60 odd they were poised for atleast 330/340 ..
NZ got through in the end to the final with a Grant Elliott special against the country of his birth.

Since that moment SA players have arguably not been as motivated to play for SA as in years gone by..
Ab De Villiers flirted with retirement for a couple of years , eventually deciding to just do IPL. .
Kyle Abbott quit Sa cricket not long after , QDK retired from test cricket at 29 , Rossouw became a T20 gun for hire ..Philander never played an ODI match again after that semi final , I don't think SA cricket has really digested the impact that match had on SA cricket, if 1999 was the start of the choking legacy , 2015 was the start of the departing legacy .

 

[loterry1994]

New Zealand's semifinal win vs South Africa 2015 ..
It started with an asterisk even before the game , Kyle Abbot being dropped despite taking 9 wickets in 4 matches for Vernon Philander , a fine player in his own right but even he admitted in the aftermath that there were 'decisions being made behind close doors' , I mean mentally that must have taken a huge toll on the team on the eve of such a huge match. Then in the match itself AB De Villiers was pummeling NZ to all parts , 60 off 38 deliveries , Williamson did drop AB on 38 but well there was a lot of that going on for both teams

SA were 216/3 in the 38th over when the rain fell and reduced the game to 43 overs ..Remember in that tournament teams were putting up monster scores towards the back end .. well NZ got through in the end to the final .

Since that moment SA players have arguably not been as motivated to play for SA as in years gone by..
Ab De Villiers flirted with retirement for a couple of years , eventually deciding to just do IPL. .
Kyle Abbott quit Sa cricket not long after , QDK retired from test cricket at 29 , Rossouw became a T20 gun for hire ..Philander never played an ODI match again after that semi final , I don't think SA cricket has really digested the impact that match had on SA cricket, if 1999 was the start of the choking legacy , 2015 was the start of the departing legacy .

Philander coming in for Abbot was one the biggest joke selections I’ve seen and obviously politically related. They still had New Zealand on the ropes and should have won that. I don’t see South Africa coming close to winning a short form World Cup anytime soon

 

[GoodAreasShane]

While picking an unfit/underdone Philander certainly didn't help the South African cause, I would argue Dale Steyn having a real off day was just as if not more costly in that semi final

 

[Chubb]

Ajmal throwing Pakistan to victory against England in 2012.

Yeah this is what I was going to say. Not just the chucking either, IIRC the other Pakistan spinner tested positive for PEDs shortly after.

EDIT - had a quick look, not PEDs per se, Rahman was done for cannabis use later that year.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Not entirely sure ripping cones exactly counts as "performance enhancing" tbqh

 

[Shady Slim]

While picking an unfit/underdone Philander certainly didn't help the South African cause, I would argue Dale Steyn having a real off day was just as if not more costly in that semi final

iirc steyn had an exceedingly mid tournament across the board

redeemed himself to some degree the following summer when he sacrificed his shoulder and his career to set up the collapse that won the first test for them and such

 

[Line and Length]

England literally didn't win the 2019 WC final.

Check your records. No matter the circumstances, no matter the whining and moaning, a result is a result and goes down in cricket history.

 

[Silver Silva]

While picking an unfit/underdone Philander certainly didn't help the South African cause, I would argue Dale Steyn having a real off day was just as if not more costly in that semi final

Vernon Philander was fit ..
I feel Vernon Philander playing the match was not the issue , it's the fact that the entire team was thrown under the bus by their own administration by forcing them to change their XI against their will on non cricketing grounds, on the eve of one of the biggest games in SA cricket..It ended up costing SA cricket more than just a match I feel .

 

[GoodAreasShane]

iirc steyn had an exceedingly mid tournament across the board

redeemed himself to some degree the following summer when he sacrificed his shoulder and his career to set up the collapse that won the first test for them and such

I wouldn't really agree, Steyn trying to knock Warner's head off was certainly entertaining viewing, but it wasn't exactly what I would call good bowling. Warner in the end just got himself out slashing at a wide one for 97 there, completely against the run of play. You are right though that momentum did shift rapidly, Rabada got Khawaja shortly after and then Smith got sawn off against Maharaj despite being well down the pitch, that shouldn't have been out and that is still 100% a hill I would die on


That game still absolutely infuriates me to this day. Painful memories

EDIT: am not at all claiming that there is an asterisk next to that result ftr. Just that that game is a deeply unpleasant one to think about

 

[Spark]

3) Boult stepping on the boundary for that catch which wasn’t that difficult

This was actually the worst one IMO. It was a hideous drop but it's been completely forgotten. Bloke just had zero awareness of where the rope was.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Check your records. No matter the circumstances, no matter the whining and moaning, a result is a result and goes down in cricket history.

I just checked the records. They say there have been 5 tied matches in World Cups

Australia v South Africa 1999 semi

South Africa v Sri Lanka 2003
(DLS tie - SA needed a win but didn't understand DLS)

Ireland v Zimbabwe 2007

India v England 2011

NZ v England 2019 final

These are the official results.

It is a fact that England were awarded the trophy, but it also a fact that the match was tied.

 

[Ali TT]

I just checked the records. They say there have been 5 tied matches in World Cups

Australia v South Africa 1999 semi

South Africa v Sri Lanka 2003
(DLS tie - SA needed a win but didn't understand DLS)

Ireland v Zimbabwe 2007

India v England 2011

NZ v England 2019

These are the official results.

It is a fact that England were awarded the trophy, but it also a fact that the match was tied.

Do we need to be putting an asterisk against the 99 semi as well then?

 

[loterry1994]

This was actually the worst one IMO. It was a hideous drop but it's been completely forgotten. Bloke just had zero awareness of where the rope was.

It’s all in hindsight now but Nz batting had to step up that game. Their bowlers were getting most teams out for under par scores under 250 against teams like India, England, Sri Lanka etc through out the group stages and finals. They were the main reason they got to the final

Ideally they wouldn’t have wanted Boult to bowl the final and super over when Lockie Ferguson was in better form that day. Boult hasn’t been good or used as much at the death since

 

[OverratedSanity]

People can talk about England win in the world
Cup and all the circumstances and that. But New Zealand had more than enough chances to win it

1) New Zealand’s first innings total wasn’t that great the bowlers had carried them most that tournament

2) Santner for god knows what reason ducking the last ball bouncer

3) Boult stepping on the boundary for that catch which wasn’t that difficult

4) Boult bowling a terrible last over to tie the game

5) NZ batters not going aggressive enough in the super over

"The other team made mistakes" is never a great counter when the team that won had a boatload of pure luck go in their favour imo. No one plays perfectly in big games. Teams get lucky sometimes it's fine to admit it, it's part of the sport.

Also, it's an asterisk, not a strike-through.

 

[Shady Slim]

I wouldn't really agree, Steyn trying to knock Warner's head off was certainly entertaining viewing, but it wasn't exactly what I would call good bowling. Warner in the end just got himself out slashing at a wide one for 97 there, completely against the run of play. You are right though that momentum did shift rapidly, Rabada got Khawaja shortly after and then Smith got sawn off against Maharaj despite being well down the pitch, that shouldn't have been out and that is still 100% a hill I would die on

DRS vindicated it to be fair

 

[GoodAreasShane]

DRS vindicated it to be fair

I am still to this day not convinced ball tracking is particularly reliable from that far out, but that isn't a can of worms I would particularly like to open right now