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Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?
- Thread starter ma1978
- Start date
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Kumbles average sucked but in terms of match impact, he did have a few noteworthy performances in SENA. Enough to me to distinguish him from Ashwin who has hardly any. If you are touring in SENA, no fan of Ashwin can claim they would prefer him over Kumble to tour.
I thought Ashwin would improve but the recent series in SA where he was toothless was his last chance honestly to make a claim to greatness.
ataraxia
International Coach
Laker, Verity, and arguably Tayfield I reckon
OverratedSanity
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As has already been mentioned before several times, Ashwin has probably been more impactful (if not as statistically good in terms of wicket volume) than Kumble in Australia. He tied Smith down for two tests, got key top order wickets in quick succession unlike Kumble in 04 and played a huge part in our greatest ever series win. It's fine to say he's not ATG, but it is silly to say Ashwin has somehow been much worse than Kumble in SENA countries. Flat out untrue, and if you watched the series you know how big an impact he had on Australia's collapses.
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Adorable Asshole
International Regular
Coronis
International Coach
fwiw in the CW spinner poll last year these offies ranked ahead of Ashwin:
Murali
Laker
Tayfield
Gibbs
Again, when the pitches are conducive to spin and he then fails we can talk, otherwise it's not as bad to fail on wickets doctored for fast bowlers.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I wouldnt say much worse either. Just that Kumble is better.
That 2021 series was a good one for Ashwin as I've said before but 2004 Kumble was a better performance. On top of that Kumble took a fair share of wickets in 2007/8.
Shri
Mr. Glass
tbf CW has you and me posting so that means **** all and that the list was voted on by absolute morons. next?
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
It is if you want to claim to be an ATG.
Shri
Mr. Glass
ashwin neutralized smith and labuschagne in australia and helped win two series. such bullshit
Shri
Mr. Glass
one lead to a series win what the **** is this crap
OverratedSanity
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Bro you brought up impact, not me, dont backpedal now. Kumble was awesome but they were expensive 5fers on flat decks that didn't affect the match outcome.
Ashwin's spells were game breaking and he gave Australia's two best batsmen a ton of trouble.
If you refuse to understand cricket in reality then what's the point?
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Don't exaggerate. I give Ashwin credit for a good series but a three-fer as a highlight of his SENA performances isn't something to write home about, he needed to give more than that in other matches.
Kumble was against an ATG lineup on roads and set up and nearly won them the last test. And beyond that has at least a handful of other performances.
I mean in 03/04 Australia didn't have McGrath or Warne, and were playing on flatter wickets where spinners got more overs simply because they could bowl more than pacers without being too exhausted. I wouldn't take being part of a drawn away series in Australia as better than being part of 2 away series wins in Australia if we're going about impact.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Perhaps we need an Ashwin vs Kumble thread.
Shri
Mr. Glass
bc only 10 wickets available to take per innings
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Let me be more charitable here then.
Ashwin in the first half of his career genuinely struggled as an overseas bowler. However, he did improve as he went on, adding more skills and use of bounce and angles from the crease, and this coincided with India becoming a better team. He was decent overall in England and good in Australia towards the end. And it is fair to say that the team management should have showed him more faith in some of these tours. He was also unlucky that several of his better performances coincided with India losing too.
While he still struggled in places like SA and in certain key match situations when he should have run through a team away from India, overall it is also fair to say that more confidence in him as was the case with other champion spinners could have yielded better results. Overall, his away record may deny him the ATG title but he was still a valuable away member for India in their glory years.
Ashwin in the first half of his career genuinely struggled as an overseas bowler. However, he did improve as he went on, adding more skills and use of bounce and angles from the crease, and this coincided with India becoming a better team. He was decent overall in England and good in Australia towards the end. And it is fair to say that the team management should have showed him more faith in some of these tours. He was also unlucky that several of his better performances coincided with India losing too.
While he still struggled in places like SA and in certain key match situations when he should have run through a team away from India, overall it is also fair to say that more confidence in him as was the case with other champion spinners could have yielded better results. Overall, his away record may deny him the ATG title but he was still a valuable away member for India in their glory years.
Silver Line
U19 Debutant
Ashwin is a indian ATG not a cricket ATG.
please dont tell me his 7fer against this weak ass west indian side is what prompted this discussion again.
Ashwin’s away record being the second worst after Shah, among this generations spinners says it all.
as a cricketer with no pitch advantages in his stats he wouldve been a 28 test averaging bowler….and it makes sense when his influence and aura is still comparable to Kumble or Bedi whatever, despite them having worser stats than him on plate.
But. in tests he has shown to bat too, which makes him India’s First Choice spinner in an India ATG over other names. because even if his bowling stats became true to his quality and started matching india’s other spinners, he can bat which other past spinners of india cannot, making him much more valuable.
thats my unbiased opnion, my biased opinion though is wanting to smack him because he thinks he’s some second coming of newton with his trying to act oversmart gimmicks and interviews
please dont tell me his 7fer against this weak ass west indian side is what prompted this discussion again.
Ashwin’s away record being the second worst after Shah, among this generations spinners says it all.
as a cricketer with no pitch advantages in his stats he wouldve been a 28 test averaging bowler….and it makes sense when his influence and aura is still comparable to Kumble or Bedi whatever, despite them having worser stats than him on plate.
But. in tests he has shown to bat too, which makes him India’s First Choice spinner in an India ATG over other names. because even if his bowling stats became true to his quality and started matching india’s other spinners, he can bat which other past spinners of india cannot, making him much more valuable.
thats my unbiased opnion, my biased opinion though is wanting to smack him because he thinks he’s some second coming of newton with his trying to act oversmart gimmicks and interviews