How will this series measure up to Ashes 2005?

[GIMH]

Flintoff as the 4th bowler with no spinner and Jones in there? bold strategy cotton

05 Flintoff, not a concern

 

[centurymaker]

I am banking on Stokes to bowl some overs.
And we are playing in England so spinner not so necessary if the options are below-par.

But if Stokes can't bowl and if we do have to have a spinner, it'd be Giles in place of Stokes.

Strauss
Trescothick
Vaughan
Root
KP
Flintoff
Bairstow
Giles
Wood
Broad
Jones

7 v 4

 

[GIMH]

Tbf Root and Vaughan aren’t bad options

 

[Line and Length]

What about a combined Australian 2005/2023 team?

Hayden
Langer/Khawaja
Ponting
Smith
M.Clarke
Gilchrist
Warne
Gillespie
Lee/Starc
Cummins
McGrath

At best 9 v 2 for 2005. At worst 7 v 4

 

[Qlder]

What about a combined Australian 2005/2023 team?

Hayden
Langer/Khawaja
Ponting
Smith
M.Clarke
Gilchrist
Warne
Gillespie
Lee/Starc
Cummins
McGrath

At best 9 v 2 for 2005. At worst 7 v 4

You're taking the easy way out by batting Gilly at 6 (and no way Warne at 7 and Gillespie 8). Gilly's batted 7 his entire career so should be the same here. Then you'd have to lose a bowler and add a batsman

 

[Spark]

What about a combined Australian 2005/2023 team?

Hayden
Langer/Khawaja
Ponting
Smith
M.Clarke
Gilchrist
Warne
Gillespie
Lee/Starc
Cummins
McGrath

At best 9 v 2 for 2005. At worst 7 v 4

If we're specifically restricting ourselves to the series themselves, this is much too generous to the 2005 side IMO, which had numerous cricketers who were rank out of form.

I'm picking Head over the Clarke that played in that series every day of the week, I know their stats are similar but Clarke in 2005 was deeply underwhelming IIRC. Gillespie in that series was completely cooked, utterly ineffective, and Lee was absolutely dreadful. I also feel that it's forgotten just how terrible both Hayden was in that series until they got to the absolute road at the Oval, which was his only notable performance in the whole series - granted, a potentially series-winning one, but that doesn't outweigh Khawaja's series so far. Also Warne at 7 is... brave.

If I had to pick a combined team purely on the basis of the performances in the two respective series I'd come up with this:

Langer
Khawaja
Ponting
Smith
Head
MMarsh
Gilchrist
Warne
Starc
Cummins
McGrath

I know it feels weird to have so many players from the 2023 side in there but that 2005 middle order was a complete wreck, hence why MMarsh kind of slots in by default - I suppose you could put Clarke in there but it really felt like he had very little impact on that series despite putting up an okay average. That middle order was Australia's terminal weakness in that series. We forget just how much Australia as a collective team was just flat out poor in that series and was very much bailed by Warne plus one or two individual performances, they were a distant second best on the balance of play after Lord's.

 

[Line and Length]

You're taking the easy way out by batting Gilly at 6 (and no way Warne at 7 and Gillespie 8). Gilly's batted 7 his entire career so should be the same here. Then you'd have to lose a bowler and add a batsman

Fair call. Head could then come in at 6 but dropping a bowler would leave the attack too thin. Marsh at 6 would help.

 

[Victor Ian]

England + Murrey mints vs Australia 2023 + sandpaper. Who wins?

 

[Aritro]

The first two pitches made the cricket less compelling than it could have been, despite all the momentum shifts and changes in fortune. I just like seeing the ball do something for at least half the deliveries in an over, otherwise I get quite bored.

 

[Molehill]

Seriously, how is anyone considering the current form of Bairstow over Jones? Jones may have dropped a couple in 2005, but at no point did he cause us to lose a Test we should have won. Bairstow already has two of those on his CV and was lucky it wasn't three. Their batting averages are currently pretty similar and as experience shows, Bairstow as a keeper is unlikely to improve his much either (something else which is frankly bewildering with his ongoing selection, it's not like there isn't previous for his batting being poor when keeping). I'm struggling to decide between Giles/Mo.

Strauss
Trescothick
Root
KP
Stokes
Flintoff
Jones
Moeen/Giles
Wood
Broad
Jones

 

[Adders]

Surely this is a ridiculous exercise to do now when this series has 2 tests to go?

Edit: I mean trying to pick combined teams from the 2 series.....not the thread itself.

 

[subshakerz]

We have had three fine, fluctuating matches with close results. None however has been as close as Edgbaston or Old Trafford in 2005. 2005 also had added significance from an English perspective that Australia had won the previous eight series.

First test was closer than Old Trafford 2005.

This has the significance in that Australia haven't won in England in over 20 years.

 

[subshakerz]

What about a combined Australian 2005/2023 team?

Hayden
Langer/Khawaja
Ponting
Smith
M.Clarke
Gilchrist
Warne
Gillespie
Lee/Starc
Cummins
McGrath

At best 9 v 2 for 2005. At worst 7 v 4

Khwaja better than Langer, Hazelwood better than Gillespie, and Starc better than scattergun Lee.

Hayden
Khawaja
Ponting
Smith
M.Clarke
Gilchrist
Warne
Hazelwood
Starc
Cummins
McGrath

 

[Molehill]

First test was closer than Old Trafford 2005.

This has the significance in that Australia haven't won in England in over 20 years.

So again, backing up the theory that England 2005 were indeed a stronger team. You're right, OT 2005 wasn't close, it was Australia clinging on for a draw.

To be honest, I think England 2005 beat Australia 2023 5-0.

 

[Molehill]

Khwaja better than Langer, Hazelwood better than Gillespie, and Starc better than scattergun Lee.

Hayden
Khawaja
Ponting
Smith
M.Clarke
Gilchrist
Warne
Hazelwood
Starc
Cummins
McGrath

I'm starting to wonder if you were even alive in 2005. Langer topped the Aussie averages and has to be selected. Smith is currently averaging 31 in this series (Head 44). Why do you want 4 seamers when you have Warne? Take out Hazlewood and add Head would be my suggestion. Case to be made for getting Hayden in ahead of Smith somehow given how he faced an outstanding bowling attack and still averaged over 35.

 

[subshakerz]

Seriously, how is anyone considering the current form of Bairstow over Jones?

Bairstow is still far better.

So again, backing up the theory that England 2005 were indeed a stronger team. You're right, OT 2005 wasn't close, it was Australia clinging on for a draw.

To be honest, I think England 2005 beat Australia 2023 5-0.

You are deluding yourself. At best, England 2005 squeak 2-1 or 3-2. And that's in England. Anywhere else, they lose handedly to Cummin's team, which has a superior pace attack, superior middle order and a superior spinner.

 

[Spark]

I'm starting to wonder if you were even alive in 2005. Langer topped the Aussie averages and has to be selected. Smith is currently averaging 31 in this series (Head 44). Why do you want 4 seamers when you have Warne? Take out Hazlewood and add Head would be my suggestion. Case to be made for getting Hayden in ahead of Smith somehow given how he faced an outstanding bowling attack and still averaged over 35.

Hayden in particular was terrible in that series until the very last game. He absolutely should not be getting in that side over Khawaja. Langer I can accept but honestly he was pretty mediocre too.

Meanwhile Australia's non-Ponting middle order in that series was dogshit. I don't think any of them should get in.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm starting to wonder if you were even alive in 2005. Langer topped the Aussie averages and has to be selected. Smith is currently averaging 31 in this series (Head 44). Why do you want 4 seamers when you have Warne? Take out Hazlewood and add Head would be my suggestion. Case to be made for getting Hayden in ahead of Smith somehow given how he faced an outstanding bowling attack and still averaged over 35.

Ok I wasn't sure whether the original post was referring to performance in the Ashes 2005 series or overall.

If only that series, how does Hayden make it in and not Khwaja over him? Then we go with three seamers like you suggest.

Khawaja
Langer
Ponting
Smith
Clarke
Head
Gilly
Cummins
Starc
Warne
McGrath

 

[Molehill]

Bairstow is still far better.

You are deluding yourself. At best, England 2005 squeak 2-1 or 3-2. And that's in England. Anywhere else, they lose handedly to Cummin's team, which has a superior pace attack, superior middle order and a superior spinner.

If Bairstow could catch, England would be 3-0 up and this series done and dusted.

Aus did have a superior spinner, but he's long since gone. Not talking about anywhere else, talking about an Ashes series in England.

 

[subshakerz]

Seriously, how is anyone considering the current form of Bairstow over Jones? Jones may have dropped a couple in 2005, but at no point did he cause us to lose a Test we should have won. Bairstow already has two of those on his CV and was lucky it wasn't three. Their batting averages are currently pretty similar and as experience shows, Bairstow as a keeper is unlikely to improve his much either (something else which is frankly bewildering with his ongoing selection, it's not like there isn't previous for his batting being poor when keeping). I'm struggling to decide between Giles/Mo.

Strauss
Trescothick
Root
KP
Stokes
Flintoff
Jones
Moeen/Giles
Wood
Broad
Jones

Sorry but even though they are averaging the same, until the series is over, I am putting him ahead of Jones until the series ends because he is simply a proper bat who has disappointed rather than a mere useful bat like Jones.

Moeen gets ahead of Giles because of batting skill.

So that is 6-5 in favor of the current team. Looks like England 2005 is much overrated on this forum.