Players having crazy transformations later in life

[Nintendo]

Has there ever been any research done on why some players can suddenly completely transform their game in a short stretch of time? I understand small changes, but seeing somoene like marnus go from a 30 average bat in the shield to a 55+ average test bat, or daryl mitchell go from a new zealand journeyman to one of the best 3 format batsmen in the world in a short stretch of time feels so surreal. Is it just tons of long term effort suddenly paying off and things all clicking or is there something else to it?

 

[weeman27bob]

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

James Anderson steroid programme

 

[Himannv]

 

[Ali TT]

Daryl Mitchell has only played 18 tests and over a third of his runs have come in 4 matches in England. There's a high chance that if his career extends out and he plays in a wider set of countries, his average will regress to the mean.

 

[Molehill]

Daryl Mitchell has only played 18 tests and over a third of his runs have come in 4 matches in England.

Played with a dodgy bunch of Dukes that went dead after about 30 overs thus leaving middle orders to pillage bowling attacks.

 

[Flem274*]

Played with a dodgy bunch of Dukes that went dead after about 30 overs thus leaving middle orders to pillage bowling attacks.

Don't you have an ATG fast bowler? Shouldn't be a problem for him.

 

[trundler]

Don't you have an ATG fast bowler? Shouldn't be a problem for him.

Supposedly the Tendulkar of fast bowling according to Molehill

 

[Nintendo]

Daryl Mitchell has only played 18 tests and over a third of his runs have come in 4 matches in England. There's a high chance that if his career extends out and he plays in a wider set of countries, his average will regress to the mean.

He made 538 runs @107 in a test series vs england in england and was the leading run scorer on either side by 150 runs, all while broad played all 3 matches and anderson played 2 of 3. You can't sit there and tell me that you'de expect some random low 30's average ~27 yo middle order journeyman from nz like, say, robbie o'donnell, to go out there and improve so significantly in a 12-18 month span that he replicates that mitchell series.

 

[Senile Sentry]

It's incredible how he retains that.lovely hair

 

[Molehill]

Don't you have an ATG fast bowler? Shouldn't be a problem for him.

He managed to take enough wickets for England to get a clean sweep....

He made 538 runs @107 in a test series vs england in england and was the leading run scorer on either side by 150 runs, all while broad played all 3 matches and anderson played 2 of 3. You can't sit there and tell me that you'de expect some random low 30's average ~27 yo middle order journeyman from nz like, say, robbie o'donnell, to go out there and improve so significantly in a 12-18 month span that he replicates that mitchell series.

There's no doubt he batted well, as did Blundell. But it was a fact all summer that the best time to bat was in the middle order. Pant and Jadeja got tons for India, Stokes and Foakes against SA, and we all know what Bairstow and Root were up to.

 

[Molehill]

Supposedly the Tendulkar of fast bowling according to Molehill

I don't think this is a fair comparison anymore. Tendulkar was unable to improve his overall average during the last 5 years of his career......

 

[Nintendo]

He managed to take enough wickets for England to get a clean sweep....



There's no doubt he batted well, as did Blundell. But it was a fact all summer that the best time to bat was in the middle order. Pant and Jadeja got tons for India, Stokes and Foakes against SA, and we all know what Bairstow and Root were up to.

Duke's had been fixed by the SA series, foakes and stokes isn't relevant. None of the players you've mentioned outside of that are , and definitely way better than mitchell 12 months before that series. Pant and jadeja where indias best test bats at the time, bairstow has the best county record of any england bat playing right now bar pope, root is an atg, and blundell is the best keeper bat in the world right now and was already in good touch leading into that series.

The duke's used for the nz and ind series was a dogtoy after the first 12 overs and being a middle order bat was clearly easier than normal, but it doesn't take away from the quality of mitchell's effort or my point in general.

 

[Flem274*]

He made 538 runs @107 in a test series vs england in england and was the leading run scorer on either side by 150 runs, all while broad played all 3 matches and anderson played 2 of 3. You can't sit there and tell me that you'de expect some random low 30's average ~27 yo middle order journeyman from nz like, say, robbie o'donnell, to go out there and improve so significantly in a 12-18 month span that he replicates that mitchell series.

Mitchell seems to have worked out he can walk down the pitch at everyone he has faced so far and boof them over their heads because he has a great eye, a lot of power and can pull it well if the bowler digs it in.

His proactiveness also shelters his weaknesses. He can get caught on the crease a lot if he bats 'properly' so his solution seems to be treat test matches like white ball cricket. He's always looking for gaps where he can get a single. I know everyone does, but he is very obviously targeting gaps and will go over the top straight until the opposition put a man back or reverse sweep to force a field change behind square.

He's going to look like an absolute goon if he starts blocking imo but that's not his job. He was first picked to cover a CdG injury and he's been batting with his penis ever since.

I expect opposition NZ find harder to rattle like Australia will find a solution to him but his short career has been extremely valuable to date.

 

[Flem274*]

He managed to take enough wickets for England to get a clean sweep....



There's no doubt he batted well, as did Blundell. But it was a fact all summer that the best time to bat was in the middle order. Pant and Jadeja got tons for India, Stokes and Foakes against SA, and we all know what Bairstow and Root were up to.

the middle order is the best place to bat in england full stop.

should nz have opened with mitchell and blundell to protect english bowling figures?

 

[sledger]

 

[Molehill]

Duke's had been fixed by the SA series, foakes and stokes isn't relevant. None of the players you've mentioned outside of that are , and definitely way better than mitchell 12 months before that series. Pant and jadeja where indias best test bats at the time, bairstow has the best county record of any england bat playing right now bar pope, root is an atg, and blundell is the best keeper bat in the world right now and was already in good touch leading into that series.

The duke's used for the nz and ind series was a dogtoy after the first 12 overs and being a middle order bat was clearly easier than normal, but it doesn't take away from the quality of mitchell's effort or my point in general.

To be honest I'm not really disagreeing with you. I was just merely pointing out that there was definitely a benefit to batting at 6, but he sure made the most of it (as did Bairstow and others).

I'll throw in Adam Voges. A decent FC career with an average of 46. But in his mid 30's he suddenly sees Test Cricket and averages 62 for 20 Tests!

 

[Blenkinsop]

Darren Stevens was a fairly average batsman who bowled a bit, then somewhere in his late 30s he became an opening bowler and started taking wickets for fun.

 

[Ali TT]

He made 538 runs @107 in a test series vs england in england and was the leading run scorer on either side by 150 runs, all while broad played all 3 matches and anderson played 2 of 3. You can't sit there and tell me that you'de expect some random low 30's average ~27 yo middle order journeyman from nz like, say, robbie o'donnell, to go out there and improve so significantly in a 12-18 month span that he replicates that mitchell series.

No I wouldn't expect any old mediocre batter to replicate Mitchell's form in England but I'm saying that Mitchell's transformation of more likely to be a purple patch rather than a permanent one. A good comparison might be Andrew Strauss, who debuted at 27 with a relatively modest FC record (I think he averaged around 40 when called up) but averaged over 50 in his first 19 tests. Over the next 81 tests, that average steadily declined to 40.

Not sure I buy that Marnus is having a transformation "later in life", he was only 24 when he made his test debut.

Although obviously still young, Brooks' rise last year must be the most remarkable in recent years. Despite being one of a bunch of England prospects in county cricket, his record for Yorkshire up to 12 months ago was pretty mediocre. He went from first gear to sixth in one go.

 

[Nintendo]

No I wouldn't expect any old mediocre batter to replicate Mitchell's form in England but I'm saying that Mitchell's transformation of more likely to be a purple patch rather than a permanent one. A good comparison might be Andrew Strauss, who debuted at 27 with a relatively modest FC record (I think he averaged around 40 when called up) but averaged over 50 in his first 19 tests. Over the next 81 tests, that average steadily declined to 40.

Not sure I buy that Marnus is having a transformation "later in life", he was only 24 when he made his test debut.

Although obviously still young, Brooks' rise last year must be the most remarkable in recent years. Despite being one of a bunch of England prospects in county cricket, his record for Yorkshire up to 12 months ago was pretty mediocre. He went from first gear to sixth in one go.

And? When marnus Debutted at 24 he was averaging 30 in FC and playing as a leg spinning all-rounder? 18 months later he went to Glamorgan, averaged 70-80 and now has averaged ~60 since in tests and dominated the shield including a final winning 190 vs the test attack in a match where 2 or 3 other people managed a 50. A transformation like that when your 25-26 and 7-8 years into your career is fairly drastic.