What was crickets best decade?

[Molehill]

the difference is anderson 34-40 gets to do it on pitches specifically tailored to jack his stats up whereas cummins has to do it on the unforgiving highways of the great southern land

If only that were true. Anderson has played 34 Tests in that period away from home, 113 wickets at 23.9......better than his overall career average.

Cummins has 89 wickets outside Australia in his entire career, of which 29 were on those 'helpful' English surfaces.

 

[Flem274*]

Anderson has begun living up to the press in his old age. Previously the only exploits he had that others lacked were an away Ashes and a UAE series, but in recent seasons has been combining the knowledge of an old bowler with the zip of a young man.

He has become the ATG the poms and their dribbling press have claimed he was since roughly 2013. He has had every advantage (right country, right ball, right era and right management) and he has used it.

Sri Lanka, West Indies and Pakistan are 3 teams who immediately come to mind that would have wasted him and even if they didn't, wouldn't give him the sheer test spam and protection from white ball cricket (white ball cricket changes mentality and technique as much as workload - Boult for a few years consciously bowled more roundarm in white ball as an example and it leaked into his test game) that England do. NZ would have broken him in 2017 in the 4th T20 in Bulgaria and Australia would have required him to move to Sydney to get a game, which is not something one should wish on anyone.

Still, he achieved it. His longevity is genuinely exceptional. Half of this forum blindly values longevity over everything else but Anderson's quality longevity is almost peerless. I can't look at a 50 year old bowling to his level and pretend I am not deeply impressed. It transcends the desire to pull punishing pommy blow ins down a notch. It's a feat I hope becomes more common in the modern game as sports science improves.

Let them have it guys, the poms really need it. They've had to watch him average 30 almost everywhere for far too long. If you must be angry, blame kookaburra. They ruined their ball and Oceania advantage with it by making it closer to the Duke. Soon even Chris Woakes will move it off the straight down here.

 

[Shady Slim]

Cummins has 89 wickets outside Australia in his entire career, of which 29 were on those 'helpful' English surfaces.

unfortunately you can't say this as the english pitches are specifically tailored to james anderson and so cummins' 29 on what are very unhelpful pitches is actually quite good

 

[Flem274*]

If only that were true. Anderson has played 34 Tests in that period away from home, 113 wickets at 23.9......better than his overall career average.

Cummins has 89 wickets outside Australia in his entire career, of which 29 were on those 'helpful' English surfaces.

In saying all this, Cummins has been comfortably better than Anderson for the majority of the time they have bowled in the same period. Anderson has closed the gap considerably though.

 

[Molehill]

In saying all this, Cummins has been comfortably better than Anderson for the majority of the time they have bowled in the same period. Anderson has closed the gap considerably though.

I've got bad news for you, the stats don't agree.

Ignoring Cummins debut in 2011, his remaining 48 Tests have been from 2017 onwards. He has 210 wickets at 21.7. In that very same period, Anderson has 218 wickets at 20.6.

So maybe in a few years, Cummins might be able to close the gap on Jimmy...

 

[subshakerz]

I've got bad news for you, the stats don't agree.

Ignoring Cummins debut in 2011, his remaining 48 Tests have been from 2017 onwards. He has 210 wickets at 21.7. In that very same period, Anderson has 218 wickets at 20.6.

So maybe in a few years, Cummins might be able to close the gap on Jimmy...

Just a round average means nothing. Cummins has been a success in Australia and South Africa, two places where Anderson has failed repeatedly, plus has a far better SR.

 

[Molehill]

Just a round average means nothing. Cummins has been a success in Australia and South Africa, two places where Anderson has failed repeatedly, plus has a far better SR.

Anderson averages 2 runs less than Cummins in S Africa in the last 7 years.

I thought the measure of a good bowler was in India. 33 for Cummins, 15 for Anderson!!

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Anderson is probably the most overrated thing in cricket.

 

[trundler]

Just give them some decent equipment and this pre-WW2 eleven would murder any T20 team around today….

(Bradman is carrying the drinks)

01. Victor Trumper
02. Frank Woolley
03. Charlie Macartney
04. Stan McCabe
05. Walter Hammond
06. Les Ames
07. Learie Constantine
08. George Hirst
09. Maurice Tate
10. Harold Larwood
11. Bill O’Reilly

Anyway I'm going to ignore the jingoistic screeching going on in this thread and comment more on this.

That bowling attack would get murdered in a T20. Tate, Hirst, and Constantine would likely fare as well as Holder or Philander. Tiger and Larwood have potential though.

 

[Socerer 01]

Anyway I'm going to ignore the jingoistic screeching going on in this thread and comment more on this.

That bowling attack would get murdered in a T20. Tate, Hirst, and Constantine would likely fare as well as Holder or Philander. Tiger and Larwood have potential though.

if Tiger’s action isn’t ruled as chucking that is

the batting would also struggle with the lack of shot variations, its easy now to just restrict batsmen who are limited in modern era where everyone knows everything that can be played, imagine in that period when they had no clue

not even going to talk about fielding. the old side would leak so many runs on the field because they can’t be bothered to prevent doubles and triples and running to save boundaries every ball

 

[HookShot]

Anyway I'm going to ignore the jingoistic screeching going on in this thread and comment more on this.

That bowling attack would get murdered in a T20. Tate, Hirst, and Constantine would likely fare as well as Holder or Philander. Tiger and Larwood have potential though.

I do realise that we’re in the realm of some weird hypotheticals but….

Tate would more than a handful for any T20 batsman because of his late swing and acceleration/bounce off the pitch. Ames would have a field day with stumpings. Incidentally, Tate was a competent hard-hitting batsman who liked hitting 6s, and scored more than 21,000 runs in FC cricket at an average of 25.

Hirst with his left-arm accuracy, ’swerve and dip’ would also be difficult to hit.

Constantine could admittedly go for a few, but I included him the side just as much for his aggressive batting and brilliant fielding. Anyway, Woolley could bowl his left-arm spinners or medium pace, or Hammond could bowl his medium-fast if need be.

As for the batting, that top order would look at the shortened roped boundaries, their enormous chunky bats and just laugh.

 

[HookShot]

if Tiger’s action isn’t ruled as chucking that is

the batting would also struggle with the lack of shot variations, its easy now to just restrict batsmen who are limited in modern era where everyone knows everything that can be played, imagine in that period when they had no clue

not even going to talk about fielding. the old side would leak so many runs on the field because they can’t be bothered to prevent doubles and triples and running to save boundaries every ball

He played one of the most destructive innings of his career against Yorkshire in 1931. Against an ensemble bowling attack comprising of Bill Bowes, Emmott Robinson, and Hedley Verity, Woolley slammed 188 in 200 minutes out of 265 scored during his stay. As the legend goes, the Bradford authorities placed a man at the adjacent football ground to retrieve the balls Woolley hit.

Frank Woolley: A giant among the great English all-rounders - Cricket Country

As Frank Woolley said himself, "when I am batting, I am the attack..."

www.cricketcountry.com

 

[subshakerz]

Anderson averages 2 runs less than Cummins in S Africa in the last 7 years.

I thought the measure of a good bowler was in India. 33 for Cummins, 15 for Anderson!!

Please don't just pick an arbitrary timeline to make Anderson look better.

 

[HookShot]

if Tiger’s action isn’t ruled as chucking that is

the batting would also struggle with the lack of shot variations, its easy now to just restrict batsmen who are limited in modern era where everyone knows everything that can be played, imagine in that period when they had no clue

not even going to talk about fielding. the old side would leak so many runs on the field because they can’t be bothered to prevent doubles and triples and running to save boundaries every ball

I don’t think that any modern batsman has learned and used Trumper’s “dog shot” against the in-swinging yorker.…

In this modern time of reverse swing, even the late inswing at the breakneck pace of Test cricket's Waqar Younis would have held no fear for Trumper, who developed the "dog shot" to dispatch a fast yorker to the square-leg boundary. To execute this shot, he had to judge the speed and the length perfectly. His consistency in playing the "dog shot" exasperated many a fast bowler of his time and he would have loved to have faced Waqar, for late inswing at furious pace was the sort of challenge Vic loved.

That batting side is just as creative as any modern T20 team with the possible exception of Hammond.

Trumper, Woolley, Hammond, Constantine all great fielders. The rest would be competent enough.

 

[trundler]

I do realise that we’re in the realm of some weird hypotheticals but….

Tate would more than a handful for any T20 batsman because of his late swing and acceleration/bounce off the pitch. Ames would have a field day with stumpings. Incidentally, Tate was a competent hard-hitting batsman who liked hitting 6s, and scored more than 21,000 runs in FC cricket at an average of 25.

Hirst with his left-arm accuracy, ’swerve and dip’ would also be difficult to hit.

Constantine could admittedly go for a few, but I included him the side just as much for his aggressive batting and brilliant fielding. Anyway, Woolley could bowl his left-arm spinners or medium pace, or Hammond could bowl his medium-fast if need be.

As for the batting, that top order would look at the shortened roped boundaries, their enormous chunky bats and just laugh.

All of those guys are just standard medium pacers who rely heavily on swing, of which there is very little in white ball stuff these days. When it doesn't swing they're simply containing options. Such bowlers really struggle in T20s these days. Philander, Holder, Asif, all struggled in white ball cricket. I can't think of any medium pacer like Tate or Hirst who's been successful in T20s recently. You've picked a very samey attack too. The extra batting depth the all rounders add would be irrelevant in most cases since they would rarely have to bat but they will have to bowl.

 

[trundler]

I don’t think that any modern batsman has learned and used Trumper’s “dog shot” against the in-swinging yorker.…



That batting side is just as creative as any modern T20 team with the possible exception of Hammond.

There's a 99% chance that passage is the product of a writer deploying his artistic license to paint a wonderful picture rather than an accurate depiction of a ninja move

 

[HookShot]

All of those guys are just standard medium pacers who rely heavily on swing, of which there is very little in white ball stuff these days. When it doesn't swing they're simply containing options. Such bowlers really struggle in T20s these days. Philander, Holder, Asif, all struggled in white ball cricket. I can't think of any medium pacer like Tate or Hirst who's been successful in T20s recently. You've picked a very samey attack too. The extra batting depth the all rounders add would be irrelevant in most cases since they would rarely have to bat but they will have to bowl.

I remember there being some criticism by the bowlers during the last World Cup that the white ball didn’t swing. However, from I can tell a bowler can still get the white ball to swing if he is good enough. It has to be relatively new though.

But yeah fair point about ‘medium pacers’.

 

[HookShot]

There's a 99% chance that passage is the product of a writer deploying his artistic license to paint a wonderful picture rather than an accurate depiction of a ninja move

To quote Monty Noble….

When a yorker on the leg stump was was pitched up to him he would pivot on his left leg and, raising the right foot, would glance it to fine-leg. The fact that the bat was substituted for the foot at the last minute was not always readily discerned by the bowler, who momentarily imagining that the ball was certain to hit the foot, would appeal for LBW, only to find, immediately afterwards, much to his surprise, that he had been hit for four.

Victor Trumper - A Tribute

Oh I am sorry. You know I used to get very small print on size "1" earlier but of late my PC is showing it fairly large thats why I used the type. I am afraid cant change for any but the very last post which I have. Tell me if its okay. Now fine - thanks SJS. Z

www.cricketweb.net

 

[The Sean]

All of those guys are just standard medium pacers

But yeah fair point about ‘medium pacers’.

To be fair, Larwood and Constantine were both seriously quick. Definitely not medium pacers.

Agreed that there's no need for both Tate and Hirst though. I reckon I'd lose Hirst, who was a far greater player for Yorkshire than he was for England.

 

[The Sean]

To quote Monty Noble….

Victor Trumper - A Tribute

Oh I am sorry. You know I used to get very small print on size "1" earlier but of late my PC is showing it fairly large thats why I used the type. I am afraid cant change for any but the very last post which I have. Tell me if its okay. Now fine - thanks SJS. Z

www.cricketweb.net

This is a weird one, because this photo has been shown here before, and apparently appeared in Fingleton's famous biography of Trumper as a demonstration of the dog shot as described by Monty Noble. And yet the batsman in the photo looks to me a lot more like Noble himself than Trumper. Maybe there was no photographic evidence of Trumper playing the shot and Monty was just trying to demonstrate it.