Official Rugby Thread

[BoyBrumby]

For my quid it was a pretty stonewall red in the current climate.

Very bad look when one pulls out of a tackle, raises an elbow and half-turns to brace for impact.

I do find the whinging a little unbecoming too. Any union side worth their salt should have more than one strategy devised for going down to fourteen.

A few years ago now I was at Billy Williams's old cabbage patch in person when England played 75+ minutes a man down versus los pumas after Elliot Daly took out a bloke in mid air. England won pretty comfortably, and this was against a team who'd been world cup semi-finalists a year or so previously.

All the reporters and pundits weighing in with the tired old "ruining the game" trope and spending an entire podcast debating whether or not it was a red rather suck the joy out of the occasion and, IMHO, are being flat out disingenuous.

Time to grow a pair, accept that red cards are not going anywhere, and stop using teams who fail to adapt to this reality as an excuse for their shortcomings.

 

[social]

It was Jonny Wilkinson who first said it, he kind of understands the game.

Knock on/forward pass whatever, it went forward and everybody knew it had. It wasn't like nobody knew it wasn't going to get called back.



Didn't mean for it to sound harsh, just adding some perspective to the situation. I'm no medical expert, but I'd guess that Thompson's dementia was more repetitive scrum related rather than one off hits. If anything, the scrum seems an even more competitive battlefield now where front rows have bulked up yet further and are always looking to win penalties. I'm amazed that nothing has ever been done about this, especially as it is often a time wasting borefest too.

Scrums are once again primarily a NH thing & they control the game

It’s totally mind blowing to me how administrators sit back watching multiple resets while virtually every other sport gets quicker and think that’s the way of the future

Have contested scrums but get them over & done with

Less contacts will generally result in less long term injuries while the ball being in play more should be a good thing

 

[Brook's side]

It was Jonny Wilkinson who first said it, he kind of understands the game.

Knock on/forward pass whatever, it went forward and everybody knew it had. It wasn't like nobody knew it wasn't going to get called back.

So where's the knock on?

And which other players had stopped playing? If you look at the clip you'll see several players entering a ruck several seconds AFTER the steward incident.

Freddie Steward RED CARD for "tackle on Hugo Keenan | Ireland vs England | Six Nations - YouTube

 

[Molehill]

Scrums are once again primarily a NH thing & they control the game

It’s totally mind blowing to me how administrators sit back watching multiple resets while virtually every other sport gets quicker and think that’s the way of the future

Have contested scrums but get them over & done with

Less contacts will generally result in less long term injuries while the ball being in play more should be a good thing

S Africa more or less won the last World Cup Final with their dominance in the scrum.

But totally agree, they take way too long to set (and re-set). If the most that could be won from a scrum was a free kick it might change the way they were seen.

 

[Brook's side]

For my quid it was a pretty stonewall red in the current climate.

Very bad look when one pulls out of a tackle, raises an elbow and half-turns to brace for impact.

I do find the whinging a little unbecoming too. Any union side worth their salt should have more than one strategy devised for going down to fourteen.

A few years ago now I was at Billy Williams's old cabbage patch in person when England played 75+ minutes a man down versus los pumas after Elliot Daly took out a bloke in mid air. England won pretty comfortably, and this was against a team who'd been world cup semi-finalists a year or so previously.

All the reporters and pundits weighing in with the tired old "ruining the game" trope and spending an entire podcast debating whether or not it was a red rather suck the joy out of the occasion and, IMHO, are being flat out disingenuous.

Time to grow a pair, accept that red cards are not going anywhere, and stop using teams who fail to adapt to this reality as an excuse for their shortcomings.

Couple of points worth noting:
- England played very competitively after the red card for 30 minutes
- Neither the England captain nor the coach has complained about the red card

 

[Molehill]

So where's the knock on?

I was referring to feign to kick re Wilkinson.

Couple of points worth noting:
- England played very competitively after the red card for 30 minutes
- Neither the England captain nor the coach has complained about the red card

That's not entirely true. Farrell said "I was surprised if I am honest" whilst Borthwick refused to even discuss it (probably telling its own story).

But they did react well to the red card, and remained competitive for most of the second half.

 

[Ali TT]

The jeopardy/uncertainty of the outcome in sport is what makes it worth watching. Yes, teams can continue to compete, occasionally win when down to 14, but a red card removed that uncertainty in almost all cases.

Hit the players with fines and suspensions for dangerous play but don't ruin matches.

 

[Brook's side]

I was referring to feign to kick re Wilkinson.

But if you watch the replay where's the feigned kick?

He gathers the ball, tries to get upright, and Steward elbows him in the face.

Which bit of that's the feigned kick?

Edit: I see that before he collects the ball he checks his run fractionally and for a moment opens his body up as he changes the angle of his run.
If you were really imaginative you could possibly for a split second foresee the possibility that he's planning to leap in the air and do some sort of head height kung fu kick.
Even giving Stewards the benefit of the doubt though that he's thought "he's going to kung fu kick this", why would he react by closing his body and sticking his elbow out? To do the kung fu kick he's have to stop his run completely which puts them yards apart.
The elbow's stuck out anticipating contact with the man not the ball. But in any case when have you ever seen an international player react to a potential charge down by turning sideways and sticking out their elbow?

 

[Molehill]

Edit: I see that before he collects the ball he checks his run fractionally and for a moment opens his body up as he changes the angle of his run.
If you were really imaginative you could possibly for a split second foresee the possibility that he's planning to leap in the air and do some sort of head height kung fu kick.
Even giving Stewards the benefit of the doubt though that he's thought "he's going to kung fu kick this", why would he react by closing his body and sticking his elbow out? To do the kung fu kick he's have to stop his run completely which puts them yards apart.
The elbow's stuck out anticipating contact with the man not the ball. But in any case when have you ever seen an international player react to a potential charge down by turning sideways and sticking out their elbow?

Because the ball has gone forward and Steward is thinking that Keenan has nothing to really gain by picking it up. How many times have you seen players in a similar scenario just give it a welly? And for a brief moment, that's what it looks like could happen.

Steward is not looking to make contact, he's looking to avoid it. Unfortunately, Keenan picks it up and then they crash into each other. Are you suggesting that every time a head makes contact with an elbow, no matter what the circumstances, it's a red card offence? If so, look to see more manufactured red cards coming soon....

 

[Furball]

Have contested scrums but get them over & done with

The idea that scrums are contested when the scrum half can more or less feed the ball to the feet of the number 8 is a nonsense.

 

[Brook's side]

Because the ball has gone forward and Steward is thinking that Keenan has nothing to really gain by picking it up. How many times have you seen players in a similar scenario just give it a welly? And for a brief moment, that's what it looks like could happen.

Steward is not looking to make contact, he's looking to avoid it. Unfortunately, Keenan picks it up and then they crash into each other. Are you suggesting that every time a head makes contact with an elbow, no matter what the circumstances, it's a red card offence? If so, look to see more manufactured red cards coming soon....

I'm not going to repeat my points, which already adequately explain the issue.

 

[Brook's side]

The idea that scrums are contested when the scrum half can more or less feed the ball to the feet of the number 8 is a nonsense.

Scrums and scrum penalties are won against the head though.

 

[Molehill]

I'm not going to repeat my points, which already adequately explain the issue.

I said early on I didn't think we'd ever agree, so let's move on.

It was at least much improved by England. I suspect they stick with Farrell now who offers defensive solidity and a gameplan that the somewhat limited team can work to. With the likes of Cowan-Dickie, Lawes, Curry, Simmonds and maybe even Underhill to return, I suspect they could surprise a few at the World Cup, especially given the favourable draw. The semi finals should be both the realistic aim and the most likely too.

 

[Brook's side]

I said early on I didn't think we'd ever agree, so let's move on.

It was at least much improved by England. I suspect they stick with Farrell now who offers defensive solidity and a gameplan that the somewhat limited team can work to. With the likes of Cowan-Dickie, Lawes, Curry, Simmonds and maybe even Underhill to return, I suspect they could surprise a few at the World Cup, especially given the favourable draw. The semi finals should be both the realistic aim and the most likely too.

Yes it would make a big difference to England I think if they could get one more tournament out of Courtney.

I'd agree that Saturday showed that it's too early to give up all hope of a respectable performance entirely. A pretty decent showing all things considered which at least demonstrated a bit of guts and a bit of fight.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Foster gone, Razor in

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Oh wait this is after the World Cup lol

 

[ashley bach]

Yeah good news for NZ rugby with Razor getting the top job, reckon he thoroughly deserves it.
After all, he has won the super rugby comp year after year after year after year after year after year.

 

[honestbharani]

Foster gone, Razor in

 

[Brook's side]

I see that the red card has been rescinded.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Shows what the feck I know!