subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Excellent points.
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Which aspects of test cricket have regressed in the current era?
- Thread starter subshakerz
- Start date
Kenneth Viljoen
International Regular
Cricket commentary has declined , now anyone can be a commentator .
Molehill
Cricketer Of The Year
So long as you used to play for your country. It's impossible for anyone to get a commentary role now based purely on their commentating abilities.
No they didn't.
Primary team England |
| Start of match date between 7 Mar 2022 and 7 Mar 2023 |
| Primary team England |
| Start of match date between 1 Sep 2010 and 1 Sep 2011 |
Trott fell off a cliff, meanwhile half of the current England batting are still at the bottom of that cliff, looking to climb up to where he was once at.
I haven't checked the stats but it certainly feels like the home country wins more test now than 20 years ago.
With no warm up matches or matches between tests and maybe home countries preparing favourable pitches more often, it's probably not surprising.
I don't think any particular discipline gets worse. There will always be peaks and troughs for individual countries and indeed for openers or spin bowlers etc but that's just a temporary thing.
The game does evolve though. Test cricket today is a very different game to the one I started watching in the late 1970's.
With no warm up matches or matches between tests and maybe home countries preparing favourable pitches more often, it's probably not surprising.
I don't think any particular discipline gets worse. There will always be peaks and troughs for individual countries and indeed for openers or spin bowlers etc but that's just a temporary thing.
The game does evolve though. Test cricket today is a very different game to the one I started watching in the late 1970's.
Molehill
Cricketer Of The Year
Might be worth changing the 2022 dates to start at 1st June to lose the somewhat disastrous W Indies series which helped shepherd in Bazball.No they didn't.
Primary team England Start of match date between 7 Mar 2022 and 7 Mar 2023
Primary team England Start of match date between 1 Sep 2010 and 1 Sep 2011
Trott fell off a cliff, meanwhile half of the current England batting are still at the bottom of that cliff, looking to climb up to where he was once at.
Socerer 01
International Captain
Bumrah’s most famous ball in tests was his slower ball to get Marsh out. bowlers can certainly bowl cutters and slow balls these days
Molehill
Cricketer Of The Year
I'm not sure about the home/away bias, but I'm guessing there are significantly fewer draws now than 20 years ago.
trundler
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yeah but they should do it more often
Brook's side
International Regular
Yes they did, as the figure I presented (on the relevant issue) demonstates.No they didn't.
Primary team England Start of match date between 7 Mar 2022 and 7 Mar 2023
Primary team England Start of match date between 1 Sep 2010 and 1 Sep 2011
Trott fell off a cliff, meanwhile half of the current England batting are still at the bottom of that cliff, looking to climb up to where he was once at.
Brook's side
International Regular
Exactly. And changing back the whole concept of the comparison to the one which I made.
Daemon
Request Your Custom Title Now!
He also had that brilliant cutter in England to Robinson that won us the game
You literally said the last 12 months so I got the stats for the last 12 months.
If you sort from June 1st 2022 and use the top 7 batters
| Primary team England |
| Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jun 2022 |
| Batting position between 1 and 7 |
| Grouped by team |
| Primary team England |
| Start of match date between 1 Sep 2010 and 1 Sep 2011 |
| Batting position between 1 and 7 |
| Grouped by team |
It's virtually the same difference.
Sep 2010 to Sep 2011 Overall figures
| Player | Mat | Inns | NO | Runs | HS | Ave | BF | SR | 100 | 50 | 0 | 4s | 6s | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| IR Bell | 12 | 16 | 4 | 1164 | 235 | 97.00 | 1838 | 63.32 | 5 | 5 | 1 | 140 | 4 | |
| AN Cook | 12 | 17 | 1 | 1504 | 294 | 94.00 | 2931 | 51.31 | 6 | 4 | 0 | 162 | 1 | |
| KP Pietersen | 12 | 16 | 1 | 1055 | 227 | 70.33 | 1633 | 64.60 | 3 | 5 | 1 | 139 | 3 | |
| IJL Trott | 10 | 15 | 2 | 810 | 203 | 62.30 | 1613 | 50.21 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 90 | 0 | |
| MJ Prior | 12 | 15 | 3 | 653 | 126 | 54.41 | 773 | 84.47 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 68 | 4 | |
| TT Bresnan | 5 | 5 | 1 | 193 | 90 | 48.25 | 336 | 57.44 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 30 | 1 | |
| EJG Morgan | 7 | 10 | 1 | 362 | 104 | 40.22 | 619 | 58.48 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 40 | 3 | |
| SCJ Broad | 9 | 8 | 1 | 239 | 74* | 34.14 | 254 | 94.09 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 32 | 2 | |
| AJ Strauss | 12 | 17 | 0 | 563 | 110 | 33.11 | 1248 | 45.11 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 71 | 1 | |
| GP Swann | 12 | 9 | 1 | 147 | 36* | 18.37 | 179 | 82.12 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 16 | 1 | |
| CT Tremlett | 7 | 6 | 3 | 47 | 24* | 15.66 | 98 | 47.95 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | |
| PD Collingwood | 5 | 6 | 0 | 83 | 42 | 13.83 | 178 | 46.62 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 8 | 0 | |
| JM Anderson | 11 | 10 | 2 | 70 | 27 | 8.75 | 191 | 36.64 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 10 | 0 |
Jun 1st 2022 to present Overall figures
| Player | Mat | Inns | NO | Runs | HS | Ave | BF | SR | 100 | 50 | 0 | 4s | 6s | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| HC Brook | 6 | 10 | 0 | 809 | 186 | 80.90 | 819 | 98.77 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 101 | 20 | |
| JM Bairstow | 6 | 11 | 2 | 681 | 162 | 75.66 | 705 | 96.59 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 89 | 13 | |
| JE Root | 12 | 21 | 4 | 1059 | 176 | 62.29 | 1409 | 75.15 | 4 | 4 | 1 | 116 | 10 | |
| BM Duckett | 5 | 10 | 1 | 508 | 107 | 56.44 | 532 | 95.48 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 63 | 3 | |
| BT Foakes | 9 | 14 | 3 | 428 | 113* | 38.90 | 826 | 51.81 | 1 | 3 | 3 | 46 | 0 | |
| OJ Pope | 12 | 22 | 1 | 809 | 145 | 38.52 | 1092 | 74.08 | 2 | 5 | 1 | 95 | 6 | |
| BA Stokes | 12 | 20 | 2 | 651 | 103 | 36.16 | 892 | 72.98 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 73 | 19 | |
| Z Crawley | 12 | 23 | 1 | 569 | 122 | 25.86 | 833 | 68.30 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 93 | 0 | |
| AZ Lees | 7 | 13 | 0 | 327 | 67 | 25.15 | 592 | 55.23 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 45 | 1 | |
| OE Robinson | 7 | 10 | 1 | 168 | 39 | 18.66 | 218 | 77.06 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 21 | 1 | |
| SCJ Broad | 9 | 12 | 0 | 172 | 42 | 14.33 | 191 | 90.05 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 23 | 4 | |
| MJ Leach | 12 | 15 | 7 | 69 | 15 | 8.62 | 182 | 37.91 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 10 | 0 | |
| MJ Potts | 5 | 6 | 2 | 30 | 19 | 7.50 | 64 | 46.87 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 1 | |
| JM Anderson | 10 | 11 | 4 | 50 | 9 | 7.14 | 88 | 56.81 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 0 |
Brook's side
International Regular
Dude, firstly let's get some context here.You literally said the last 12 months so I got the stats for the last 12 months.
If you sort from June 1st 2022 and use the top 7 batters
Primary team England Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jun 2022 Batting position between 1 and 7 Grouped by team
Primary team England Start of match date between 1 Sep 2010 and 1 Sep 2011 Batting position between 1 and 7 Grouped by team
It's virtually the same difference.
Sep 2010 to Sep 2011 Overall figures
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s IR Bell 12 16 4 1164 235 97.00 1838 63.32 5 5 1 140 4 AN Cook 12 17 1 1504 294 94.00 2931 51.31 6 4 0 162 1 KP Pietersen 12 16 1 1055 227 70.33 1633 64.60 3 5 1 139 3 IJL Trott 10 15 2 810 203 62.30 1613 50.21 3 3 1 90 0 MJ Prior 12 15 3 653 126 54.41 773 84.47 3 3 2 68 4 TT Bresnan 5 5 1 193 90 48.25 336 57.44 0 2 0 30 1 EJG Morgan 7 10 1 362 104 40.22 619 58.48 1 3 2 40 3 SCJ Broad 9 8 1 239 74* 34.14 254 94.09 0 3 3 32 2 AJ Strauss 12 17 0 563 110 33.11 1248 45.11 1 4 2 71 1 GP Swann 12 9 1 147 36* 18.37 179 82.12 0 0 0 16 1 CT Tremlett 7 6 3 47 24* 15.66 98 47.95 0 0 0 5 0 PD Collingwood 5 6 0 83 42 13.83 178 46.62 0 0 0 8 0 JM Anderson 11 10 2 70 27 8.75 191 36.64 0 0 1 10 0
Jun 1st 2022 to present Overall figures
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s HC Brook 6 10 0 809 186 80.90 819 98.77 4 3 1 101 20 JM Bairstow 6 11 2 681 162 75.66 705 96.59 4 1 1 89 13 JE Root 12 21 4 1059 176 62.29 1409 75.15 4 4 1 116 10 BM Duckett 5 10 1 508 107 56.44 532 95.48 1 4 1 63 3 BT Foakes 9 14 3 428 113* 38.90 826 51.81 1 3 3 46 0 OJ Pope 12 22 1 809 145 38.52 1092 74.08 2 5 1 95 6 BA Stokes 12 20 2 651 103 36.16 892 72.98 1 2 1 73 19 Z Crawley 12 23 1 569 122 25.86 833 68.30 1 2 2 93 0 AZ Lees 7 13 0 327 67 25.15 592 55.23 0 2 0 45 1 OE Robinson 7 10 1 168 39 18.66 218 77.06 0 0 0 21 1 SCJ Broad 9 12 0 172 42 14.33 191 90.05 0 0 0 23 4 MJ Leach 12 15 7 69 15 8.62 182 37.91 0 0 3 10 0 MJ Potts 5 6 2 30 19 7.50 64 46.87 0 0 1 3 1 JM Anderson 10 11 4 50 9 7.14 88 56.81 0 0 1 7 0
This is a thread about whether test cricket has declined.
Someone gave England's poor recent batting as evidence of the decline in test cricket. I pointed out that actually England's batting has been very good recently.
With regards to the details, you are not making the same point that I am making.
In support of my contention that England's recent batting is not so bad that it demonstrates a recent decline in test cricket, I stated that the combined average over the previous 12 months for a top 7 which England could realistically field for their next test match is 387.
You replied stating that I was wrong, and cited a match from 2011 in which the top 7 had a combined career average of 334.
The figures of the line up which you presented are outstanding, but they don't prove that I was wrong.
No. I said the quantity of quality batsmen in several countries aren't as good as they were 10-15 years. A quality batsmen would be someone who averages over 40 in Test Cricket over a sustained period. Only Joe Root and Harry Brook average over 40 in their careers. Brook has played 6 Tests.
You then went onto respond by suggesting that England currently were the best batting lineup England has had in the last 15 years, perhaps even last 50. I compared the career stats of the current lineup to England of 2011 to show otherwise.
You then alluded that England currently is better because their form stats from a small sample of Tests are higher to the career averages of the 2011 squad, which were amassed across 100s of Tests in totality.
I responded by showing the form stats of England across 2011 to show that they actually were significantly better then what England's current set up has produced the last 8-9 months.
This is comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges, which is what you were doing.
Yes, recently England have batted well. That doesn't take away the fact for many years prior that England's Test batting has been below average and has been carried by Joe Root.
Brook's side
International Regular
In response to the question, "Which aspects of test cricket have regressed in the current era?...what parts of the game can we say have definitely become worse in the past 20 years?"
You said, "Nations like...England...just don't have the same quantity of quality of Test batsmen that they had 10-15 years ago."
I pointed out that England has one of its strongest batting line ups in the last 50 years, or words to that effect.
I was right, and you citing the poor quality of England batsmen as evidence of a decline in the standards of test cricket in the modern era was misguided, and in fact wrong.
The fact that you think that your statistic of a top 7 batting line up in 2011 having a combined career average of 343 is more impressive than my statistic of a current England top 7 having an average in the last 12 months of 387 is neither here nor there.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I think one aspect or influence of T20 batting that is underrated is how much faster batsmen can score when they are set and feel the freedom to tee off. It is a reason you are seeing a lot more of the bigger scores by batsmen you may not always associate with test batting.
The MSD 200 was a perfect example. Think it also creates scenarios like the Karun 300. The Stokes 250. etc.
The MSD 200 was a perfect example. Think it also creates scenarios like the Karun 300. The Stokes 250. etc.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
You know citing a single instance from eighteen years ago (so outside the time period we are talking about) doesn't disprove my point?
Brook's side
International Regular
Was there ever really a period where the slower ball was significantly used (by fast or fast medium bowlers)?
The most recognised bowler of the slower ball (franklyn stephenson) didn't even play test cricket.
The most recognised bowler of the slower ball (franklyn stephenson) didn't even play test cricket.
Immenso
International Vice-Captain
Reads to me like he is agreeing with your point.