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Is Shivnarine Chanderpaul an ATG test batsman?

Is Shivnarine Chanderpaul an ATG test batsman?


  • Total voters
    39

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
Which All Time XI can beat this West Indies Test XI ?
1) Chris Gayle-5 Overs
2) Gordon Greenidge
3) Viv Richards
4) Brian Lara
5) Clive Lloyd*
6) Gary Sobers-17 Overs
7) Jeff Dujon+
8) Malcolm Marshall-17 Overs
9) Michael Holding-16 Overs
10) Joel Garner-17 Overs
11) Curtly Ambrose-18 Overs
-----------
90 Overs per day can any Team survive a day against Marshall, Garner, Holding, Ambrose, Sobers and Gayle ?
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Can Chanderpaul a better replacement to Clive Lloyd ?
 

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
Curtly Ambrose - 405 Wkts - 20.99 Avg - 54.5 SR - 2.30 Econ
Malcolm Marshall - 376 Wkts - 20.94 Avg - 46.7 SR - 2.68 Econ
Joel Garner - 294 Wkts - 21.42 Avg - 51.53 SR - 2.49 Econ (Including WSC)
Michael Holding - 284 Wkts - 23.61 Avg - 50.43 SR - 2.81 Econ (Including WSC)
Gary Sobers - 235 Wkts - 34.03 Avg - 91.9 SR - 2.22 Econ
Chris Gayle - 73 Wkts - 42.73 Avg - 97.3 SR - 2.63 Econ


I don't think any Countries All Time XI including Australia XI can beat this bowling lineup
 

Kenneth Viljoen

International Regular
Curtly Ambrose - 405 Wkts - 20.99 Avg - 54.5 SR - 2.30 Econ
Malcolm Marshall - 376 Wkts - 20.94 Avg - 46.7 SR - 2.68 Econ
Joel Garner - 294 Wkts - 21.42 Avg - 51.53 SR - 2.49 Econ (Including WSC)
Michael Holding - 284 Wkts - 23.61 Avg - 50.43 SR - 2.81 Econ (Including WSC)
Gary Sobers - 235 Wkts - 34.03 Avg - 91.9 SR - 2.22 Econ
Chris Gayle - 73 Wkts - 42.73 Avg - 97.3 SR - 2.63 Econ


I don't think any Countries All Time XI including Australia XI can beat this bowling lineup
Stick to the topic , there's more to cricket than arguing about which team is the greatest or which cricketer is the greatest, it's been done a million times .
 

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
In 1986 England in West Indies : Blackwash 5-0
PlayerMatInnsOversMdnsRunsWktsBBIBBMAveEconSR510
J Garner (WI)510156.130436274/437/5816.142.7934.700
MD Marshall (WI)510169.336482274/388/13217.852.8437.600
BP Patterson (WI)510118.119426194/307/7422.423.6037.300
MA Holding (WI)48102.417385163/475/8424.063.7538.500
RA Harper (WI)2238.0155543/104/5513.751.4457.000

In 1984 West Indies in England : Blackwash 5-0
PlayerMatInnsOversMdnsRunsWktsBBIBBMAveEconSR510
J Garner (WI)510217.560540295/559/10818.622.4745.010
MD Marshall (WI)48167.450437247/538/17018.202.6041.930
MA Holding (WI)48122.224343155/437/9822.862.8048.910
RA Harper (WI)510128.447276136/576/9021.232.1459.310

EAE Baptiste (WI)59125.03926583/313/6033.122.1293.700

In an All Time XI if there is Garner, Marshall, Holding, Ambrose (replacing Patterson or Baptiste), Sobers and Gayle (replacing Harper) the Team is very deadly.
 
Last edited:

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
Stick to the topic , there's more to cricket than arguing about which team is the greatest or which cricketer is the greatest, it's been done a million times .
This topic is now stinking, Chanderpaul doesn't deserve too much attention. give the answer i asked Chanderpaul or Clive Lloyd at No 5 ?
 

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
The answer to this question is : whether Viv would captain or Lloyd ?
I believe West Indies Team will benefit if they have Clive Lloyd compared to Chanderpaul in this XI.
Clive Lloyd as Captain and Viv Richards as Vice Captain will benefit the Team due to Strong Leadership
 

srbhkshk

International Captain
My 2 cents is that just because he is selfish doesn't make him not an ATG, it just makes him a selfish ATG.

In my mind this is somewhat linked to the not-out debates that occasionally pops up here, maybe people who stay not out too often don't quite have averages as valuable as the ones who don't - but it doesn't in any way make them less of a quality batsman. You still need to score 50 runs without getting out to get an average of 50 - with or without not outs.
 

Socerer 01

International Captain
yeah having thought about it after several people here pointed it out I do think Shiv likely makes most XIs in any era. may have to reassess my opinion of him
 

Bolo.

International Captain
If anything CW loves Chanderpaul so it can feel smug about liking an unpopular player. I like dour batsman I am very smart.

I'd rather have Laxman or Clarke in my side to bat 5/6 even if they were 'inferior' batsmen. No one thinks those guys are ATGs so this thread is a real head scratcher.
By all means, challenge CW consensus opinions. Mocking them in this way is doing exactly what you are accusing CW of.

There is also the fact that you are wrong. I'd be surprised if 1% of cricketweb regular posters don't think he would have been better if he had more gas at the same average, bearing in mind his team and batting position. People who regard him as an ATG look at him as a 50+ 20 year bat, and that is fine if you want to set the bar at that point*. You could reasonably set the bar far lower than this... he is a better bat than 98% (or whatever) of players who have had a knock in tests. Nobody is claiming he is a Viv, whatever his stats say.

*As long as you realise that he was utterly rubbish within the context of these stats.
 

trundler

Request Your Custom Title Now!
By all means, challenge CW consensus opinions. Mocking them in this way is doing exactly what you are accusing CW of.

There is also the fact that you are wrong. I'd be surprised if 1% of cricketweb regular posters don't think he would have been better if he had more gas at the same average, bearing in mind his team and batting position. People who regard him as an ATG look at him as a 50+ 20 year bat, and that is fine if you want to set the bar at that point*. You could reasonably set the bar far lower than this... he is a better bat than 98% (or whatever) of players who have had a knock in tests. Nobody is claiming he is a Viv, whatever his stats say.

*As long as you realise that he was utterly rubbish within the context of these stats.
I'll admit I was pushing back at certain posters saying not rating Chanderpaul as ATG is something contrarian nerds say. That is just obnoxious sanctimony and annoys me greatly. You're on a cricket forum, no ****ing wonder people nitpick players. And it's not a consensus position here but people genuinely do argue that strike rate is irrelevant altogether (hence Viv being retrospectively underrated by some). I've never said that Shiv's not an exceptional player, just that his stats do flatter him massively. And the way he got em certainly wasn't ATG worthy for me.
 

Flem274*

123/5
I'll admit I was pushing back at certain posters saying not rating Chanderpaul as ATG is something contrarian nerds say. That is just obnoxious sanctimony and annoys me greatly. You're on a cricket forum, no ****ing wonder people nitpick players. And it's not a consensus position here but people genuinely do argue that strike rate is irrelevant altogether (hence Viv being retrospectively underrated by some). I've never said that Shiv's not an exceptional player, just that his stats do flatter him massively. And the way he got em certainly wasn't ATG worthy for me.
G'day Trundler.

Settle down on the projection there.
 

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