Is Jadeja an ATG test cricketer?

[BazBall21]

Have always had Ashwin ahead because he’s better at their stronger suits but Jadeja’s improved batting is starting to make me reconsider. Like others have said, it’s his range of tempos that’s particularly impressive. More than just a talented hitter.

 

[subshakerz]

Have always had Ashwin ahead because he’s better at their stronger suits but Jadeja’s improved batting is starting to make me reconsider. Like others have said, it’s his range of tempos that’s particularly impressive. More than just a talented hitter.

Yeah the bowling is close enough and Ashwin's batting has fallen away. I rate Ashwin better overall but if Jadeja keeps his batting form for another year I think he takes it.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Ashwin is a superior bowler than Jadeja at home.

A bit like Malcolm Marshall vs Ambrose comparison

The way Jadeja prised out a fifer on the opening day of the last test, when it is the easiest to bat, indicates some elite level skill set. He got Marnus and Smith best with length more than line which says a lot.

 

[subshakerz]

A bit like Malcolm Marshall vs Ambrose comparison

The way Jadeja prised out a fifer on the opening day of the last test, when it is the easiest to bat, indicates some elite level skill set. He got Marnus and Smith best with length more than line which says a lot.

No doubt but Ashwin has got all the tools and variation, so he is a threat even on a flatter India wicket. His SR in India in 46, which is just insane for a spinner.

 

[Senile Sentry]

No doubt but Ashwin has got all the tools and variation, so he is a threat even on a flatter India wicket. His SR in India in 46, which is just insane for a spinner.

Yeah that's the fun part. Ashwin thrives on varieties, and hence can go for runs - hence his eco rate is 2.7 as compared to Jadeja's much more miserly 2.25. Jadeja exerts the control by bowling tight lines and lengths. Yet both have almost exact bowling avg in India - 20.88 for Ash and 20.3 for Jadeja. Both scarcely believable numbers though!!

Also, don't forget that Jadeja had impressive numbers in Australia on both tours. Averaging 21 with 14 wickets om such pitches is no joke. Ash too had a good outing in Aus over the last two BGTs with 28 avg.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah that's the fun part. Ashwin thrives on varieties, and hence can go for runs - hence his eco rate is 2.7 as compared to Jadeja's much more miserly 2.25. Jadeja exerts the control by bowling tight lines and lengths. Yet both have almost exact bowling avg in India - 20.88 for Ash and 20.3 for Jadeja. Both scarcely believable numbers though!!

Also, don't forget that Jadeja had impressive numbers in Australia on both tours. Averaging 21 with 14 wickets om such pitches is no joke. Ash too had a good outing in Aus over the last two BGTs with 28 avg.

Posters are making a big deal about Jadeja in Australia but he was just a support act, those numbers flatter him.

Ashwin had worse numbers in 2021 but performance-wise it was much better than Jadeja there. He actually neutralised Smith.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah that's the fun part. Ashwin thrives on varieties, and hence can go for runs - hence his eco rate is 2.7 as compared to Jadeja's much more miserly 2.25. Jadeja exerts the control by bowling tight lines and lengths. Yet both have almost exact bowling avg in India - 20.88 for Ash and 20.3 for Jadeja. Both scarcely believable numbers though!!

Also, don't forget that Jadeja had impressive numbers in Australia on both tours. Averaging 21 with 14 wickets om such pitches is no joke. Ash too had a good outing in Aus over the last two BGTs with 28 avg.

The reason I bring the SR is that I have never seen a spinner with that low SR with that big of a test sample. Even Murali has an SR of 50 in SL. Only toptier pacers have those numbers. And he takes 6 wickets a game.

 

[Senile Sentry]

The reason I bring the SR is that I have never seen a spinner with that low SR with that big of a test sample. Even Murali has an SR of 50 in SL. Only toptier pacers have those numbers. And he takes 6 wickets a game.

Yes that's indeed mighty impressive. But the finer print reveals that his strike rate goes up to nearly 49 when Jadeja is also playing. And Jadeja's is also an equally impressive 54. Ultimately very little difference in performance numbers between the two.

As I said earlier both are bona fide ATGs in their trade from an Indian perspective.

NB- Jadeja has never played a test at home without Ashwin

 

[Senile Sentry]

Posters are making a big deal about Jadeja in Australia but he was just a support act, those numbers flatter him.

Ashwin had worse numbers in 2021 but performance-wise it was much better than Jadeja there. He actually neutralised Smith.

I would like to hear your substantiation of tha first point. 9/14 dismissals by Jadeja were that of proper batters. How do you state then that it is just a supporting act? His strike rate in those 4 matches was 54 which is top of the tier for a finger spinner in Australia.

Also most importantly, in the two matches thar both Ashwin and Jadeja played in Australia, Jadeja got 7 wickers @ 15 (SR 32) while Ashwin got 7 at 39 (SR 72). If course I am not using this stat to say Jadeja was massively superior or Ashwin was underwhelming, as both probably had different roles to fulfill.

 

[subshakerz]

I would like to hear your substantiation of tha first point. 9/14 dismissals by Jadeja were that of proper batters. How do you state then that it is just a supporting act? His strike rate in those 4 matches was 54 which is top of the tier for a finger spinner in Australia.

Also most importantly, in the two matches thar both Ashwin and Jadeja played in Australia, Jadeja got 7 wickers @ 15 (SR 32) while Ashwin got 7 at 39 (SR 72). If course I am not using this stat to say Jadeja was massively superior or Ashwin was underwhelming, as both probably had different roles to fulfill.

Jadeja was superior to Ashwin overall in Australia since Ashwin sucked in 2014/5.

But yeah, those games that Jadeja played his performances was good but don't get swayed by the average it's not like he was threatening to run through Australia, he somewhat over performed and kept things tight. So credit to him but some posters are treating it like he was bowling matchwinning spells.

 

[honestbharani]

People who think Jadeja is some kind of dasher with the bat have obviously never seen him bat. He has always been a proper long form batsman who takes his time. He improved as a hitter through IPL and international cricket, especially post 2015 but as a batsman, esp. in tests, he is very much in the Pujara mould. If we ever get the old Virat back at 4 or get a more aggressive batsman at 4, he will be an ideal #5.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Jadeja was superior to Ashwin overall in Australia since Ashwin sucked in 2014/5.

But yeah, those games that Jadeja played his performances was good but don't get swayed by the average it's not like he was threatening to run through Australia, he somewhat over performed and kept things tight. So credit to him but some posters are treating it like he was bowling matchwinning spells.

Just to clarify I haven't considered any Ashwin performances prior to 2018 in the match up.

I think you have terribly lofty standards for a visiting finger spinner in Australia.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Just to add some context, take the example of Jaddu s 4-64 at Sydney. Rahane didn't use Jadeja effectively (or over invested in Ashwin) and was brought in to bowl only in the 48th over (by which time Ashwin had already bowled 14 largely ineffective overs for no wickets). Australia had already been to a good start by then, 159-2. Jadeja got just 3 overs in his first spell where he was tight and gave just 2 runs away. He was brought in again at the 63rd over (!) with Smith and Labu coasting and Aus 180-2. Jadeja got the much needed breakthrough by getting Labu caught at slips. He also got Wade (all this while Ashwin toiling on the other end) and finished his second spell with figures of 2-43 from just 12 overs and Aus 244-4. He was again removed from the attack. His third spell came in when Aus were 276-6 in the 94th over and immediately took out Cummins and later Lyon in a spell of 6-0-19-2. He also ran Smith out with a superhuman effort which helped Indiaget Aus all out for 338 on a very good surface to bat on.

Whenever Jadeja came in he provided results but was not used most optimally by Rahane. Even at MCG he under bowled Jadeja on a helpful surface and then introduced him very late in the 2nd innings - although he got two quick breakthroughs which resulted in Aus sliding from 92-3 to 99-6.

There was nothing on evidence especially in the last BGT that Jadeja just lucked out by getting some cheap wickets.

 

[subshakerz]

Just to clarify I haven't considered any Ashwin performances prior to 2018 in the match up.

I think you have terribly lofty standards for a visiting finger spinner in Australia.

No, I think Jadeja by visiting spinners standards did well but Ashwin to me did better in that 2021 series and had more impact despite worse figures.

 

[subshakerz]

Just to add some context, take the example of Jaddu s 4-64 at Sydney. Rahane didn't use Jadeja effectively (or over invested in Ashwin) and was brought in to bowl only in the 48th over (by which time Ashwin had already bowled 14 largely ineffective overs for no wickets). Australia had already been to a good start by then, 159-2. Jadeja got just 3 overs in his first spell where he was tight and gave just 2 runs away. He was brought in again at the 63rd over (!) with Smith and Labu coasting and Aus 180-2. Jadeja got the much needed breakthrough by getting Labu caught at slips. He also got Wade (all this while Ashwin toiling on the other end) and finished his second spell with figures of 2-43 from just 12 overs and Aus 244-4. He was again removed from the attack. His third spell came in when Aus were 276-6 in the 94th over and immediately took out Cummins and later Lyon in a spell of 6-0-19-2. He also ran Smith out with a superhuman effort which helped Indiaget Aus all out for 338 on a very good surface to bat on.

Whenever Jadeja came in he provided results but was not used most optimally by Rahane. Even at MCG he under bowled Jadeja on a helpful surface and then introduced him very late in the 2nd innings - although he got two quick breakthroughs which resulted in Aus sliding from 92-3 to 99-6.

There was nothing on evidence especially in the last BGT that Jadeja just lucked out by getting some cheap wickets.

Thanks for these details and to clarify I don't say Jadeja got lucky. When I say he was a support bowler it's basically that he was mainly to support the wicket taking of the others and wasn't given a full bowling load (at least from what I remember in 2021 and you are confirming) compared to Ashwin who bowled twice as long as he did which definitely affects your figures. Hence he did well but the figures slightly flatter him.

 

[Daemon]

Thanks for these details and to clarify I don't say Jadeja got lucky. When I say he was a support bowler it's basically that he was mainly to support the wicket taking of the others and wasn't given a full bowling load (at least from what I remember in 2021 and you are confirming) compared to Ashwin who bowled twice as long as he did which definitely affects your figures. Hence he did well but the figures slightly flatter him.

Somewhat like Anderson when he last toured Australia and India?

 

[Senile Sentry]

Thanks for these details and to clarify I don't say Jadeja got lucky. When I say he was a support bowler it's basically that he was mainly to support the wicket taking of the others and wasn't given a full bowling load (at least from what I remember in 2021 and you are confirming) compared to Ashwin who bowled twice as long as he did which definitely affects your figures. Hence he did well but the figures slightly flatter him.

Yeah but he still managed to get good number of wickets that he ended up getting 7 good wickets in just 3 innings that he bowled. Not his fault that the captain didn't bowl him as much as he should have.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah but he still managed to get good number of wickets that he ended up getting 7 good wickets in just 3 innings that he bowled. Not his fault that the captain didn't bowl him as much as he should have.

You think he did better than Ashwin in 2021?

 

[Senile Sentry]

Again just add more context to above point, Jadeja bowled the most number of overs in the MCG test that India won in 2018. Virat understood his value perhaps better (a reason why he was preferred over Ashwin overseas) and Jadeja rewarded that faith by executing the role of a mainstay spinner very well. He bowled 25 overs in the first innings, and returned 2-45 and 32 overs in the second, returning 3-72. Very creditable returns for a finger spinner playing his first ever test in Aus.

 

[centurymaker]

Both are just as good, very little between them.