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Best Batsman Besides Bradman (inactive players only)

Who is the BBBB (Best Batsman Besides Bradman)?

  • Herbert Sutcliffe

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wally Hammond

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • George Headley

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Everton Weekes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Neil Harvey

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Peter May

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ken Barrington

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Greg Chappell

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Javed Miandad

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kumar Sangakkara

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Victor Trumper

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Clyde Walcott

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Frank Worrell

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    46
  • Poll closed .

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Let’s agree to disagree here, I guess(like the Imran vs Kapil in ODIs thing), since we are reiterating the same points over and over again.
Which is fine because you also raise good and valid points. I like that the best after Bradman is not clear.
 

Coronis

International Coach
You can't place Sobers in the same basket as Hobbs, or even a Hammond or Hutton when it comes to the standards of fast bowling attacks faced. Fast bowling has gradually developed over the years, until it peaked and has been the dominant factor in Test cricket bowling from sometime in the 70s to now. Sobers played from 54-74, so he's facing on a somewhat consistent basis some quality quick bowlers.

Suffice it to say, that if I could have a match in the quintessential "modern" conditions, with everything being suited to be comfortable and familiar to the most modern players, if i could take a time machine and transport the Sobers of that time to now I would have zero hesitation or doubt in taking him into even the greatest modern side, because he is just at that level of overall cricketer.

I cannot say the same for Hobbs, at all.
You drop Hobbs into Tendulkar’s era or vice versa then both will have vast adaptations to make. Cricket has obviously changed a great deal over the years which is why its better to judge a player by how much they stood out compared to their peers imo.
 

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
You drop Hobbs into Tendulkar’s era or vice versa then both will have vast adaptations to make. Cricket has obviously changed a great deal over the years which is why its better to judge a player by how much they stood out compared to their peers imo.
exactly Hobbs didn’t fast bowlers of the variety Viv and SRT did, but they didn’t bat in pitches as challenging as Hobbs.
 

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
Fine. But irrespective of whether Sobers minnow bashed or not, Smith had a more rounded and better home away record, despite batting for the second half of his career in a tougher era than Sobers. Also I would still rate Viv, Sachin, Hobbs> Sobers
 

OverratedSanity

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Sobers' last two series against India were against the spin quartet and WI lost one of the series, (the famous 71 tour). To classify India as minnows for the entirety of Sobers' career is just ignorant.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Regarding Sachin, usually there is genius behind perfection but you don't always end up seeing it coz it is so perfect and the totally perfect craftmasters do one thing more than anything else - make it look easy, simple, repeatable.

That said I still think Lara was a better test batsman and more of a genius overall, simply because I think he could play shots to good balls that no one else could.
i challenge you to a stats fight in a tendulkar vs lara comparison thread...
 

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
Sobers' last two series against India were against the spin quartet and WI lost one of the series, (the famous 71 tour). To classify India as minnows for the entirety of Sobers' career is just ignorant.
I specifically mentioned towards the end of Sobers career, Ind had the spin quartet. Also in addition I did revise my stance on the minnow point.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Fine. But irrespective of whether Sobers minnow bashed or not, Smith had a more rounded and better home away record, despite batting for the second half of his career in a tougher era than Sobers. Also I would still rate Viv, Sachin, Hobbs> Sobers
Smith hasnt done enough yet to go ahead of Sobers.
 

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
Smith hasnt done enough yet to go ahead of Sobers.
He has had a peak of averaging close to 70 for a decade like Sobers. Sure Sobers averaged what 65 for 15 years(a peak like Hobbs, not Tendulkar level tho), but Smith has played around the same number of matches in lesser years. Smith also matches short term peaks of virtually anyone not named Richards or Bradman. Smith has done while batting against a better variety of attacks, less domination of softer attacks than Sobers, and played in a tougher era for the second half of his career. Smith also has a more rounded home/away record.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
He has had a peak of averaging close to 70 for a decade like Sobers. Sure Sobers averaged what 65 for 15 years(a peak like Hobbs, not Tendulkar level tho), but Smith has played around the same number of matches in lesser years. Smith also matches short term peaks of virtually anyone not named Richards or Bradman. Smith has done while batting against a better variety of attacks, less domination of softer attacks than Sobers, and played in a tougher era for the second half of his career. Smith also has a more rounded home/away record.
Smith is a modern player. Needs a bigger sample size of matches for me to be comparable. Somewhere around 110-120 games should be enough.
 

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
but save for a massive collapse, Smith should average 57+ atleast till 110-120 matches. And he will that many matches save an injury. If he does average atleast 57+ for that sample, then he should be ahead of Sobers even by your logic.
 

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
And even for the sample of 110-120 matches. Smith should have a comparable record to Sobers. But Smith averages more, has better long term and short term peaks, a more rounded home away record, has played a bigger variety of attacks, better bowling in general, less domination of soft attacks, and played the second half of his career in a more tough era than Sobers. So Smith is clearly superior and him being a modern batsmen doesn’t offset all of these advantages he has over Sobers.
 

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
Smith isn’t a Ponting case, he has done well in all conditions, and he’s never been out of form for a decade. Smith has also played in a tougher era than 2000s for the second half of his career, facing better bowling and tougher wickets.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Smith isn’t a Ponting case, he has done well in all conditions, and he’s never been out of form for a decade. Smith has also played in a tougher era than 2000s for the second half of his career, facing better bowling and tougher wickets.
I dont really think Smith has been tested with worldclass attacks the level Sachin and Viv and to a certain extent Sobers did. It is just that his runscoring against medium and soft attacks has been far better.
 

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
Sachin and Viv level, I completely agree. Sobers has murdered soft attacks more than any batsmen in the best after Bradman discussion. Smith has scored exceptionally againsy all types of attacks. I don’t think Sobers faced that many great attacks, the spin quartet withstanding, and maybe Lindwall/Miller. Smith has mastered some worldclass attacks(although not Sachin/Viv level), and some good ones. Anderson/Broad in 2015(away), Ashwin/Jadeja 2017(away), Eng 2019 etc. The only soft attack relentlessly murdered by Smith is WI(752 runs scored barely).
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Sachin and Viv level, I completely agree. Sobers has murdered soft attacks more than any batsmen in the best after Bradman discussion. Smith has scored exceptionally againsy all types of attacks. I don’t think Sobers faced that many great attacks, the spin quartet withstanding, and maybe Lindwall/Miller. Smith has mastered some worldclass attacks(although not Sachin/Viv level), and some good ones. Anderson/Broad in 2015(away), Ashwin/Jadeja 2017(away), Eng 2019 etc. The only soft attack relentlessly murdered by Smith is WI(752 runs scored barely).
Pitches in Australia around 2014 to 2017 were ridiculously batting friendly. Scored against soft attacks of India and Pakistan at that time.

The only worldclass pace attack Smith truly succeeded against was Steyn/Philander early in his career. Since then he faced some good attacks which he plundered.
 

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