subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
He was but Gavaskar was one of the best ever from what I gather. Perhaps not a huge point of difference tho
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Sunil Gavaskar vs Allan Border
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
That vote was a travesty.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Gavaskar and Border are in the same league or close to it. Kallis is a level below.
trundler
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Wrong.
ashley bach
Cricketer Of The Year
trundler
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Where batting is generally easier and it's easier to boost your average with not outs.
ZK$
U19 Cricketer
Border actually batted more at 3 and 4 than he did at 5 and 6. His century rate when batting at 3 and 4 is actually worse than when batting at 5 and 6, so that excuse doesn’t work.
3 & 4 - 12 hundreds in 124 innings (century rate of 10.33)
5 & 6 - 15 hundreds in 133 innings (century rate of 8.87)
3 & 4 - 12 hundreds in 124 innings (century rate of 10.33)
5 & 6 - 15 hundreds in 133 innings (century rate of 8.87)
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Kallis' record is massively inflated from minnows, weak attacks and flat pitches.
Kallis in his peak wasn't even rated among the top three batsmen of the time, others like Ponting, Hayden, Dravid, Lara were considered better.
Kallis sucked in England, plus Sri Lanka. The others don't have those holes.
shortpitched713
International Captain
At the risk of derailing this thread, I do think that opening, and openers are generally underrated on this forum. Middle order runs are not equal to opening runs, especially in modern eras, of which Gavaskar was a part. I think Gavaskar is the only guy from more recent eras who gets proper respect as a great opening batsman.
But think, there are so many guys who don't even get into ATG conversations, who in all rights should. I'm thinking guys like Graeme Smith, Bill Lawry, etc. And they are all overlooked for the simple reason that 3 English blokes from before WWII, all performed exceptionally well in the same position, facing conditions and challenges not really remotely comparable to the ones faced by modern opening batsmen. A crying shame, for mine.
But think, there are so many guys who don't even get into ATG conversations, who in all rights should. I'm thinking guys like Graeme Smith, Bill Lawry, etc. And they are all overlooked for the simple reason that 3 English blokes from before WWII, all performed exceptionally well in the same position, facing conditions and challenges not really remotely comparable to the ones faced by modern opening batsmen. A crying shame, for mine.
ashley bach
Cricketer Of The Year
If no prick can get you out then your average deserves to be boosted.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Is there any other opener averaging 50 plus in the 70s and 80s? If not then Gavaskar's case is even stronger.
SillyCowCorner1
Moooo
I like both of them.
They both had to battle very hard against our relentless pacers.
But, I’ll take the classy lefty on this one ?
They both had to battle very hard against our relentless pacers.
But, I’ll take the classy lefty on this one ?
trundler
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G Smith is faaaaaar from underrated on this forum. The bloke was great away but he doesn't average 40+ at home if not for ZimBang but he's seen as clearly superior to Hayden/Sehwag for some reason. Lawry was a fine batsman but had a reputation for dourness. Relatively short career that ended unceremoniously which explains why he's less remembered than the guys he's as good as. Greenidge and Boycott get their due I think. Overall, there just haven't been that many truly great openers and I think that's just random statistical variance. You had the 3 finest post War openers around at roughly the same point in the late '70s/early 80s and now Kraigg Brathwaite opens for the World XI.
Edit: At some point before Steyn broke through, guys like Nel and Hoggard would've been close to making the World XI. Ntini was a near certainty and he wouldn't make the bench for SA today.
Edit: At some point before Steyn broke through, guys like Nel and Hoggard would've been close to making the World XI. Ntini was a near certainty and he wouldn't make the bench for SA today.
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subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Classy?
SillyCowCorner1
Moooo
Obviously, with bat in hand.
Slifer
International Captain
I respectfully disagree specifically with Len Hutton. He faced great pace vs Australia when they had : Lindwall, Miller, Bill Johnston and Ian Johnson (spinner). Then he would've faced decent spin from the WI in the form of Ramadhin and Valentine. And one can point to a few series vs both attacks where Hutton did well, despite his horrific war injury.
ZK$
U19 Cricketer
If you’re actually scoring hundreds frequently and batting up the order, then sure. Border wasn’t great at scoring hundreds unfortunately as shown above and had a RPI of only 42.17.
Arachnodouche
International Captain
Gavaskar has become noticeably more rustic with age. Used to sound very suave pre-'95 but at some point seems to have just said **** it and embraced his inner "we are like this only" desiness.
Border's remained the same crusty bastard he always was. Gotta love him.
Border's remained the same crusty bastard he always was. Gotta love him.