Most overrated cricketer

[shortpitched713]

i've been fiddling around with a bit of a brute force stats anal-sis and holy **** does richard hadlee get some cheap first glance longevity points.

7 of his career years he played 4 tests or less.

i don't think he's overrated ftr but international workloads were a lot lighter back then. marshall gets a gentler time of it too.

I've been thinking something along these lines for a while now.

# of Tests > Years Duration of career for longevity determination.

Yes, that screws the older players, and those older players had other commitments. Don't hold that **** against the current guys, who have to grind Test matches, and even 2 other formats at times in addition to their Test workload. And god forbid a modern player chooses to do "load management" and picks and chooses series or Tests to extend his career, he won't hear the end of it from CW types.

Ultimately, the value of a Test match, as an entity in itself has value, and I won't hear of folks trying to just make them mean less in their retroactive comparisons with older players.

 

[Bolo.]

i've been fiddling around with a bit of a brute force stats anal-sis and holy **** does richard hadlee get some cheap first glance longevity points.

7 of his career years he played 4 tests or less.

i don't think he's overrated ftr but international workloads were a lot lighter back then. marshall gets a gentler time of it too.

Most top cricketers from that era were playing 2 FC seasons, including a long county season. Hadlee and Marshall both have more runs in FC than Kohli, and a lot more wickets than Anderson.

These are not workloads to lay into.

 

[SteveNZ]

i've been fiddling around with a bit of a brute force stats anal-sis and holy **** does richard hadlee get some cheap first glance longevity points.

7 of his career years he played 4 tests or less.

i don't think he's overrated ftr but international workloads were a lot lighter back then. marshall gets a gentler time of it too.

The guy bowled approximately 6 million, 9 hundred and 78 thousand, 2 hundred and 34 overs in county cricket between those tests. He was an insanely durable, fit, and mentally tough guy. Definitely not worth a * next to Sir Richard.

 

[Ashes81]

I think Pant is over rated by some posters on here - he figured in quite a few of the all time XI in the Aussies all time XI v ROW XI thread , which I thought was well over the top, he's only been playing for 5 minutes.

He's a fantastically gifted player who may end his career as an ATG keeper batsman but to include him in all time ROW XI was nonsense in my humble opinion.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I think Pant is over rated by some posters on here - he figured in quite a few of the all time XI in the Aussies all time XI v ROW XI thread , which I thought was well over the top, he's only been playing for 5 minutes.

He's a fantastically gifted player who may end his career as an ATG keeper batsman but to include him in all time ROW XI was nonsense in my humble opinion.

If the criteria is performances vs Australia, in Australia, why not?

 

[Ashes81]

If the criteria is performances vs Australia, in Australia, why not?

Because he's only played 7 tests in Australia and that's not enough for my money to be included in all time ROW team.

He's only played 30 odd tests, again not enough to warrant selection in such a team.

Plus he's a very average keeper at the highest level.

I'm not knocking Pant, but for me it's well too early to include him in any all time ROW XI.

 

[Coronis]

Because he's only played 7 tests in Australia and that's not enough for my money to be included in all time ROW team.

He's only played 30 odd tests, again not enough to warrant selection in such a team.

Plus he's a very average keeper at the highest level.

I'm not knocking Pant, but for me it's well too early to include him in any all time ROW XI.

tbf he does have more runs than any keeper bar Knott in Australia.

 

[Ashes81]

tbf he does have more runs than any keeper bar Knott in Australia.

He does but surely when we're picking an all time XI, there's more to to than his runs in 7 tests.

Is he really a better option than De Villiers as a keeper batsman or Sangakarra.

As a keeper he's also very average at the very highest level.

 

[Flem274*]

I've been thinking something along these lines for a while now.

# of Tests > Years Duration of career for longevity determination.

Yes, that screws the older players, and those older players had other commitments. Don't hold that **** against the current guys, who have to grind Test matches, and even 2 other formats at times in addition to their Test workload. And god forbid a modern player chooses to do "load management" and picks and chooses series or Tests to extend his career, he won't hear the end of it from CW types.

Ultimately, the value of a Test match, as an entity in itself has value, and I won't hear of folks trying to just make them mean less in their retroactive comparisons with older players.

i instinctively hate this because it gives players fortunate enough to be born in countries with more opportunities (e.g. england) credit others cannot earn without becoming traitors (caddick).

i understand completely with the format stuff, and i think 3 international formats is harder than going to play county, but i think raw number of tests lacks nuance.

plus i don't really think hadlee's longevity is overrated - he had 11 seasons of 4 or more tests maintaining a bowling average under 35* - which is equal to mcgrath. marshall and imran had 8 each. i feel that's about right for useful longevity.

*in my view you're not much use to your side if you're average over 35 as a specialist bowler. you might be the best option, but you're not exactly a positive either because you're not test standard. basically, i was having a look at how often guys were test standard which i think is true useful to the team longevity.

 

[turnstyle]

Michael Vaughan.

 

[SteveNZ]

Michael Vaughan.

As a commentator (if he's rated) maybe...but 41 as an opener in a red-hot period for fast bowling, with his Ashes record, I dunno what there is to overrate.

 

[Line and Length]

There are a few cricketers that had an over-inflated opinion of themselves.
Geoff Boycott for one.