*Official* Srilanka and New Zealand LO tours to India - Jan 2023

[Hurricane2]

Yeah,

Allen
Conway
KW
Latham
Philipps
Mitchell
Macewell
Santner
Southee
Boult
Ferguson

is a very good line up for a WC in India.

Poor team. That 4 5 and 6 middle order will be poor.

 

[Hurricane2]

Conway
Allen
Williamson
Young
Latham (wk)
Phillips
Macewell
Santner
Sodhi
Ferguson
Boult

Is my thinking atm

Prefer this over Honest B's team.

 

[Zinzan]

I like Phillips at 6. It's hard to find good players who can hit from the get go, especially specialist batsmen used to batting higher.

Likewise Allen on domestix alone is easily in our t20 side and I'm glad we're developing him in jamodis.

I wouldn't give up on Mitchell or Nicholls yet but Nicholls definitely needs some runs at the lower level. In the 2nd odi he got a few on the pads he missed out on that old Nicholls would nail as his bread and butter.

Conway
Allen
Williamson
Young
Latham (wk)
Phillips
Macewell
Santner
Sodhi
Ferguson
Boult

Is my thinking atm

Don't mind that ODI XI, and definitely pro Young over Mitchell based on their recent white ball form and the fact Mitchell is rarely an option with the ball.

Strongly against maintaining Nicholls in the squad though, guy is well and truly shot. Chapman needs to be given a couple of chances, at least in the squad as the next batsman off the rank. Played an excellent white ball innings on the last tour to India, is good in the field & can hit a deceptively long ball but just doesn't seem to get the chances others do.

 

[Hurricane2]

I feel sorry for our selectors. There are probably too many options and few clear cut choices from a middle order perspective. Me and probably every NZ fan is tracking Rachin as well. His next game Feb 1 vs Otago. If he comes good that solves many problems.

 

[G. S. Kohli]

India's white-ball opening prospect Ruturaj Gaikwad has been ruled out of the three-match T20I series against New Zealand after he complained of wrist pain.

Great news for Prithvi Shaw supporters in india

 

[Bahnz]

I think Munro makes my point. Once we removed Munro the dasher and put the slow but consistent Nicholls into open we went on a winning streak.
That team had more cake than the 2023 one as it had Ross in the team,

I don't understand Bahnz's post back to me as I turned 50 this year and the memes you young people use are over my head. However yes Finn Allen can and should bat slower, he is a sophisticated batsman as he has shown for Auckland A and the NZ Under 19 team.

Tell him to rein in his strike rate. You guys havnt seen the best of Finn yet. He just blitzes it to give himself a point of difference from other domestic players.

Keep Finn. But tell him to slow down.
It is not possible for him to become more selective and still bash everything and fantastically just drop his dismissal decisions. He needs to tone down his whole approach.
And another thing. Latham is not reliable. So really the only cake in the team is Conway and KW. Which is why we need a nice safe start. Rather than Finn doing a McCullum at the top of the order.

A winning streak of <checks notes> one win from four games.

Allen can't bat for **** unless he's in T20 mode. Dude averages about 4 in FC cricket and sub-30 in list A. Look, he might learn in time, but it's just not a skillset he's got at the moment.

 

[Flem274*]

Don't mind that ODI XI, and definitely pro Young over Mitchell based on their recent white ball form and the fact Mitchell is rarely an option with the ball.

Strongly against maintaining Nicholls in the squad though, guy is well and truly shot. Chapman needs to be given a couple of chances, at least in the squad as the next batsman off the rank. Played an excellent white ball innings on the last tour to India, is good in the field & can hit a deceptively long ball but just doesn't seem to get the chances others do.

i agree, i wouldnt have nicholls in the squad. he need domestic runs.

i also like chapman and hope he get a few more opportunities.

 

[G. S. Kohli]

Lister in line for debut tomorrow

Stats and trivia: Santner the allrounder

• India have won all three T20Is played in Ranchi so far, including one against New Zealand in November 2021.
• The year 2022 was Santner's best in T20Is with both bat and ball. In 18 matches, he scored 133 runs at a strike rate of 143.01, and picked up 23 wickets at an economy rate of 6.63.
• In six T20Is, Malik has picked up nine wickets, but he has an economy rate of 10.90.

 

[Socerer 01]

India's white-ball opening prospect Ruturaj Gaikwad has been ruled out of the three-match T20I series against New Zealand after he complained of wrist pain.

Great news for Prithvi Shaw supporters in india

Shaw isn’t playing tomorrow Pandya confirmed it

 

[Moss]

I feel sorry for our selectors. There are probably too many options and few clear cut choices from a middle order perspective.

I don’t. With a few exceptions, ever since the 2015 World Cup or so they have tended not to look beyond the regular names when it comes to white ball cricket and missed tons of chances to experiment in bilaterals and build depth.If they find themselves in a difficult position with too many unproven names to choose from, it’s entirely of their own making.

 

[SteveNZ]

For all the scrutiny on Finn, it's worth remembering that the guy he took over from immediately decided to cut and run rather than continue to fight for his spot. And can't buy a run in the Big Bash. All things being equal and how international cricket has/should/could be, there'd be a significantly experienced guy behind Finn who went back to domestic cricket to score a massive weight of runs, find form and push back to get into the side.

Alas, welcome to 2023.

 

[Immenso]

For all the scrutiny on Finn, it's worth remembering that the guy he took over from immediately decided to cut and run rather than continue to fight for his spot. And can't buy a run in the Big Bash. All things being equal and how international cricket has/should/could be, there'd be a significantly experienced guy behind Finn who went back to domestic cricket to score a massive weight of runs, find form and push back to get into the side.

Alas, welcome to 2023.

I didn't know about his Guppy's form, shows how off my radar T20 leagues are.

But, that's a bit of a shame. I had in my head that we had a very experienced backup 'around the traps' that could be parachuted in to the final WC team if required (same with Boult and Neesham). While in the meantime the experience, time & effort is correctly poured into the younger contracted guy.

Maybe he's getting to old, maybe he's just in a plain old simple lean trot, or maybe he's a guy who needs the mix of longer forms along with T20 (that a central/provincial contract brings) in order to have his game stay at the elite level?

 

[Bahnz]

Guptill is cooked, regardless of Allen, he'll be 37 by the time of the World Cup, and he hasn't posted a big score against significant opposition since that 90 he made v Australia a couple of years ago. He was never coming back and I had no issues with him trading on his reputation to pick up a sneaky T20 contract while the getting was still good.

To be clear, I'm overall for Allen's continued place in the side, but I do think he's only really capable of the Baz/Munro role. He just doesn't have a solid body of work as a 'normal' batsmen at domestic level to suggest he's capable of it in internationals. If he was going to try and take on that sort of roll, I'd want to see him go back to domestics and make some big runs for Wellington in the Ford Trophy and Plunket Shield. With some hard work and time, I think he'd definitely be capable of it, but with the amount of money that could be available to him in T20 leagues I kinda doubt that will happen.

 

[NZTailender]

I think if we want Allen at the WC he just has to continue playing and improving his game between now and then.

If you want to change courses at the last minute, the only alternative 'ready to go options' opening at domestic level with international experience are Ravindra, Seifert and George Worker. Ravindra would be alright and a decent spin option but I think you'd need to draft him in now. Seifert has the 'explosive' reputation but never really lived up to the hype. Actually don't mind Worker but he seems in the Neil Broom middling level of too good for domestic but not good enough for internationals against the top 5 sides.

Or do you take a punt on someone like Luke Georgeson or Jack Boyle?

(yes I literally just only looked at who opened in the recent round of the FT)

 

[Immenso]

I think if we want Allen at the WC he just has to continue playing and improving his game between now and then.

If you want to change courses at the last minute, the only alternative 'ready to go options' opening at domestic level with international experience are Ravindra, Seifert and George Worker. Ravindra would be alright and a decent spin option but I think you'd need to draft him in now. Seifert has the 'explosive' reputation but never really lived up to the hype. Actually don't mind Worker but he seems in the Neil Broom middling level of too good for domestic but not good enough for internationals against the top 5 sides.

Or do you take a punt on someone like Luke Georgeson or Jack Boyle?

(yes I literally just only looked at who opened in the recent round of the FT)

Aren't you missing the obvious one, Will Young?
Not that I know how much ListA opening he has ever done, bt that never stopped them in tests ....

 

[ataraxia]

Or do you take a punt on someone like Luke Georgeson or Jack Boyle?

Nah, those two aren't even in their team's best XI and have only been remotely good in the Ford Trophy. In Worker and Rachin you've got two quality openers on the sidelines. The last thing we want is a Hail Mary imo, it's not like we lack options! Steady as it goes...

 

[Flem274*]

Worker isn't an explosive opener like we're looking for but he's been roughly treated. Easily has the strongest results among domestic openers in a competition that keeps surprising us for its reliability, and he has runs against good sides on the brief occasions he's picked.

He isn't a ball one hitter though, he's in the Guptill mould.

 

[nzfan]

My last post was commending Steady and Larsen for spotting the talent in Bracewell rightly so but been frustrated of late with some of the clueless running of cricket.

The inside running is most of the players are fed up with these guys. Selections are consistently inconsistent. Legends and senior players have been treated shabbily and the younger players haven't been provided enough opportunities to prove themselves. Plenty of confusion going on in the camp and the results reflect that. We had a golden opportunity rotating the players and figuring out how each one stacks since last year (the home series, europe, west indies and aussie tours). Taylor retired (had to given he was more or less pushed down the contract list and wasn't going to get white ball opportunities), Guptill sidelined (picked but didn't play a game in the t20 wc), Ajaz treatment is not even worth mentioning, Wagner done and dusted, moved Neesham in a jiff and then went back to him sheepishly to hear a NO, Kane moved on as captain in red ball cricket, very impatient with Kyle Jamieson in white ball cricket, Young picked and dropped as per whimsies.

Haven't developed, encouraged or persisted with new talents, one or two bad games and they are out. Pretty much Larsen and Steady have demonstrated how not to run a professional unit.

We now have a hole at the top of the order, middle order, spin bowling and fast bowling departments. Pretty much holes everywhere. How many holes are we going to tape up? The incumbents that have been picked and shafted will come in with not much confidence meaning they won't be playing freely.

I hope they persist with Finn Allen and not make him a scapegoat for the losses ignoring the fact the more experienced players were no better. At least Allen is getting some reasonable starts unlike others in the side. I'm not sold on Mitchell, Phillips, Bracewell combination. Looks good on paper but high chances it's not going to cut consistently. I know I'm going to be laughed at but Phillips is far less capable than Allen. Majority of his run scoring comes when they bowl straight and definitely not a player sorted vs spin yet. Have really enjoyed Bracewell's batting but have seen him bat for Firebirds for a very long time and those memories doesn't let me trust he is a world beater yet but he can definitely bat and better than some of the other players.

How is Nicholls in any Black Caps team let alone white ball?

We've played two good teams in Aussie and India, our scoreline is 0-6. England and South Africa will be a challenge too. In fact even Bangladesh and Sri Lanka will be a challenge for us in sub continent conditions. Thanks to Phillips in the last decider, we won the series in Pakistan. Pakistan is not one of the better teams going around right now I'd think.

How's our bowling tracking? Not good at all in my opinion. We're now relying on Southee to come back and do some magic. In fact I'm not even sure if his bowling will stand up for those conditions. Backup of Tickener, Shipley, Doug, Lister (although he does provide point of difference) doesn't instill confidence. Hoping Santner, Lockie and Jamieson are firing all cylinders in the world cup. Boult won't play that's for sure unless of course Gary and Larsen put their ego aside and beg him to play.

What about our spin bowling stocks? Santner world class no doubt, of late he is also looking like he's more attacking than just trying to keep runs under check. Bracewell's bowling is not going to cut in India particularly being an offie, didn't even finish his quota of overs in a single game in those conditions (bowled 14 overs @ 7 rpo picking up 1 wicket averaging 107). Ish is struggling with achilles heal and in any case not as reliable. Phillips didn't bowl a single over in India. There's no chance they are going to bowl Chapman either.

I'd love to believe it's glass half full but given the results of late (we've won 2 test matches out of 10 last year), now the 3-0 score line vs Aussies and Indians, marginal win vs depleted Pakistan even I've lost a lot of enthusiasm.

I don't think fixing one position or replacing Allen is going to help. I'd rather see him persisted. There are too many holes to fill and likely we are done with the golden run. You can't expect Kane and Devon to do all the scoring. They are also humans and will have some low scores at some point in time. Hopefully not during the world cup. Besides we aren't even playing enough one dayers. We have truck loads of t20s coming up and we aren't building a team for future in that format either.

Will continue to watch black caps without expecting them to dominate like they did in the last few years. Here's hoping we move on from Larsen and Steady as early as possible, hopefully even before the world cup and restore some consistency. Wishful thinking but when things are not going the way it should you know something is not right in the ingredients.

I can clearly see they have locked in the team for the world cup already. Not hoping for change in personnel barring maybe one (likely they will shaft Allen) but expect a lot of strange selections not based on recent form or domestic performances then wonder what went wrong.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Hmmm I could read that post or I could just blame everything on women getting a pay rise

 

[nzfan]

Hmmm I could read that post or I could just blame everything on women getting a pay rise

Take the easy route, it's the women's cricket surely