Who is closer in terms of cricketer status, Lara & Tendulkar or Warne & Murali?

[TheJediBrah]

Well it might have been a good idea to at least offer the charity of understanding my opinion before disparaging it as being hardly one.

Ultimately I don't even agree with the harder bit anyway. Sure, leg spin is harder to pick up than off spin at the school grade level, when they're first learning it, because it's more difficult to control, everyone knows that. But it doesn't remain more difficult at the Test level. Honestly it's a bit asinine in my mind to think that such a thing applies to differentiate the greatest player's of all time, as if our perceived challenges with a bowling style are even considerations at the level of the greatest ever masters.

It definitely does. Probably even more so than at the lowest levels because your bad balls are going to get consistently punished. **** leg spinners taking bulk wickets in lower-grade club cricket happens constantly because the batsmen are ****

Picking up finger-spin at any level is so much easier than it should be. Definitely the easiest skill to pick-up with limited practice and be reasonable proficient at. Being top-class at it on the other hand is a very different story.

 

[honestbharani]

Well it might have been a good idea to at least offer the charity of understanding my opinion before disparaging it as being hardly one.

Nah it was a stupid post by PEWS. Dont worry.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Point is saying legspin is really hard is no reason to give Warne any edge.

Meh it can be. Pure effectiveness need not necessarily be the only thing everyone has to consider important when trying to separate players (especially when the gap is tiny). At Murali/Warne levels of effectiveness, it becomes futile trying to argue for one over the other unless you go into other characteristics you may value.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ultimately I don't even agree with the harder bit anyway. Sure, leg spin is harder to pick up than off spin at the school grade level, when they're first learning it, because it's more difficult to control, everyone knows that. But it doesn't remain more difficult at the Test level.

It's equally difficult and rare for an off spinner or a leg spinner to reach truly atg status. But it's unquestionably easier to be a not-terrible off spinner. Why do you think the vast majority of part timers bowl off breaks?

 

[Athlai]

So you're saying Murali standing so far above a crowded field means he's clearly the more masterful

 

[OverratedSanity]

Marshall isn't really considered that far ahead of McGrath/Hadlee, just has a strong consensus. Wasim standing out miles ahead of the other left arm pacers (no one cares about Davidson) is one of the reasons people rate him higher than what his pure effectiveness demands.

 

[Sunil1z]

So you're saying Murali standing so far above a crowded field means he's clearly the more masterful

Would Murali be as effective today without his doosra ?
Do any of the good off spinners bowl doosra today ? ?

 

[shortpitched713]

It's equally difficult and rare for an off spinner or a leg spinner to reach truly atg status. But it's unquestionably easier to be a not-terrible off spinner. Why do you think the vast majority of part timers bowl off breaks?

The vagaries of what you're mentioning being the case about difficulty, isn't relevant to this case which is specifically a discussion about ATGs. As cool as it might be for I don't know, Marnus Labushagne to pick up off spin bowling in the off season, and then become so good he ends up with an average and wicket taking record like Murali or Warne, something like that has never happened before. That's because there's a massive diminishing return on the "easiness" of off spin bowling, to the point where it's no longer a factor for a conversation comparing Murali and Warne, imo.

 

[srbhkshk]

tbh you can easily flip the logic to say that Murali being such a standout in an art that anyone can easily learn is more impressive than Warne dominating a handful of leggies.

On a personal level I didn't really find bowling leg spin any tougher than bowling off spin, if anything properly bowling off spin was somewhat harder when you have the temptation of just sliding in a chuck in between the actual deliveries.

 

[honestbharani]

At the elite level, that thing that Red brought up does not matter at all. And I dont see any part of the OP that warranted that.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The vagaries of what you're mentioning being the case about difficulty, isn't relevant to this case which is specifically a discussion about ATGs. As cool as it might be for I don't know, Marnus Labushagne to pick up off spin bowling in the off season, and then become so good he ends up with an average and wicket taking record like Murali or Warne, something like that has never happened before. That's because there's a massive diminishing return on the "easiness" of off spin bowling, to the point where it's no longer a factor for a conversation comparing Murali and Warne, imo.

Bro why did you just say my post back at me

 

[subshakerz]

tbh you can easily flip the logic to say that Murali being such a standout in an art that anyone can easily learn is more impressive than Warne dominating a handful of leggies.

On a personal level I didn't really find bowling leg spin any tougher than bowling off spin, if anything properly bowling off spin was somewhat harder when you have the temptation of just sliding in a chuck in between the actual deliveries.

Same. Leg spin always seemed easier to me. Off spin seems much harder to bowl more accurately and more tricky to get the revs.

 

[shortpitched713]

Bro why did you just say my post back at me

I wanted to share the thought experiment of an established specialist batsman becoming the GOAT spinner, for fun while on holiday with his kids or some ****.

 

[Coronis]

Marshall isn't really considered that far ahead of McGrath/Hadlee, just has a strong consensus. Wasim standing out miles ahead of the other left arm pacers (no one cares about Davidson) is one of the reasons people rate him higher than what his pure effectiveness demands.

Don’t you hate it when nobody cares about the superior player.

 

[shortpitched713]

Don’t you hate it when nobody cares about the superior player.

Don't you hate it when "muh left arm pacers" doesn't even matter as a concept, because just give me the two superior right arm pacers 100/100 times.

Also, you're wrong about the superior player anyway.

 

[trundler]

There's black and white footage of Davidson which automatically makes him better.

 

[Red]

Marshall isn't really considered that far ahead of McGrath/Hadlee, just has a strong consensus. Wasim standing out miles ahead of the other left arm pacers (no one cares about Davidson) is one of the reasons people rate him higher than what his pure effectiveness demands.

“no one cares about Davidson”?

 

[Red]

Same. Leg spin always seemed easier to me. Off spin seems much harder to bowl more accurately and more tricky to get the revs.

Baffles me someone could find over the wrist spin “easier” than flicking the ball with your fingers as you roll it over, but ok

 

[OverratedSanity]

“no one cares about Davidson”?

Well yeah. He's one of the most underrated players ever. No one remembers or rates him outside us cricket nerds on CW and some boomers who watched him play.

 

[a massive zebra]

This makes zero sense to me. Considering leg spin is the hardest craft to master by a significant margin.

I've always thought this to be a very silly argument indeed. If leg spin was a significantly harder craft to master than off spin, it follows that there should be far fewer ATG leg spinners than off spinners. Yet this simply isn't true - in fact, the opposite is the case. For instance, your own country probably has at least four or five leg spinners of a higher quality than their greatest ever off spinner.

Obviously it is harder to become a mediocre leg spinner than a mediocre off spinner as leg spin is harder for inexperienced or unskilled players to control, but this has zero relevance to bowlers of the standard of Murali and Warne.