Ashwin vs Warne

[shortpitched713]

Has Ashwin surpassed Warne as the greatest conventional spin bowler of all time? I can kind of guess where the poll will lean towards, but just wanted to spark some discussion.

Obviously Ashwin has a long way to go to get to the cumulative wickets taken stat of Warne, but already his average is over a point lower than Warne's, which although a simplistic measure, is the general starting point for these discussions. Does anyone think Ashwin's already better if he retired tomorrow? If not, what would it take to get him there, just more longevity, or some specific achievements?

 

[Line and Length]

This is a joke, right?

 

[Xix2565]

Ashwin isn't a wrist spinner though???

 

[subshakerz]

Ashwin is good enough to shine the ball and hand it to Warne to deliver.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Has Ashwin surpassed Warne as the greatest conventional wrist spin bowler of all time? I can kind of guess where the poll will lean towards, but just wanted to spark some discussion.

For a start Ashwin is a FINGER spinner. And to answer your question - not close.

 

[shortpitched713]

Ashwin isn't a wrist spinner though???

For a start Ashwin is a FINGER spinner. And to answer your question - not close.

Sorry, I meant to just say conventional spinner to differentiate him from the other unconventional wrist spinner Murali, whom Warne is often compared to.

 

[Coronis]

The one whose average goes down away.

 

[shortpitched713]

The one whose average goes down away.

If Warne was really that good, the Australian's would have prepared tracks that could assist him.



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[shortpitched713]

Also, Ashwin does better in Sri Lanka and the West Indies than Warne.

 

[shortpitched713]

But honestly, I don't get what our obsession tends to be with batsmen and bowlers doing just as well in away and adverse conditions as home and favorable ones. Almost every player's performance has a gap in those circumstances.

Isn't it almost weirder if they don't have a difference, and can't take advantage of a favorable condition? What's wrong with making hay, stomping where you can, and allowing your teammates instead to take advantage of the conditions more favorable for them?

 

[Burgey]

There’s nothing wrong with it, but people will place different emphases on different factors when you’re working out which of two exceptional players is better

 

[shortpitched713]

If you're a batsman and you average 50 on sticky wickets, shouldn't you average like 60+ on actually good wickets?

No one's ever given me a good explanation as to why this argument doesn't apply to discredit the "ideal" nature of the so called player for all conditions, who has the same averages everywhere. IMO, such a player is leaving runs or wickets on the table in some sense.

 

[Burgey]

If you're a batsman and you average 50 on sticky wickets, shouldn't you average like 60+ on actually good wickets?

No one's ever given me a good explanation as to why this argument doesn't apply to discredit the "ideal" nature of the so called player for all conditions, who has the same averages everywhere. IMO, such a player is leaving runs or wickets on the table in some sense.

No because some people are better players on slow wickets than others and stickies are essentially two paced and predominantly slow, so if you play late and under your eyes you will be better on sticky wickets than some one who goes hard at the ball. Likewise, some players don’t handle hard and bouncy decks, and others don’t handle decks which turn fast as opposed to slowly.

There aren’t many players who are equally proficient across all types of decks.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If Warne was really that good, the Australian's would have prepared tracks that could assist him

No they wouldn't, and didn't

 

[ankitj]

I'm guessing against Bangladesh is where this comparison will start getting interesting.

 

[honestbharani]

I think Ashwin is an ATG test cricketer but not quite an ATG test spinner yet and Warney was IMO the second greatest spinner of all time in tests. So as a bowler, it is pretty clearly Warney.

 

[Red]

Ashwin isn't a wrist spinner though???

So?

 

[duffer]

I think Ashwin is an ATG test cricketer but not quite an ATG test spinner yet and Warney was IMO the second greatest spinner of all time in tests. So as a bowler, it is pretty clearly Warney.

As a spinner, yeah Warne walks this. Ash has 5 Test Centuries though, so as an overall cricketer the debate gets interesting

 

[Zinzan]

Didn't realise Ashwin's Test record was so good to be honest.

Averaging 27 with bat & <25 with the ball, how did I miss this.

 

[Spark]

If Warne was really that good, the Australian's would have prepared tracks that could assist him.



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YES THIS IS A HYPERBOLIC DEVIL'S ADVOCATE TAKE, DESIGNED TO GET PEOPLE TO RECONSIDER THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM ON THIS TOPIC.