The legacy of Steve Smith

[Coronis]

I'm saying you could make the exact same statement about Devon Conway after he scored 200 on his debut in England.

Well if you’re going to be that guy…

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

I am that guy

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'm saying you could make the exact same statement about Devon Conway after he scored 200 on his debut in England.

You could but why would you

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Because It's correct op

 

[Shady Slim]

Trying to think about who would've been the #1 batsman and bowler in the game. Note that a lot of the time it would've been disputed:

2014 - present: Smith (maybe Root for the COVID years where Smith was batting with a stump?)
2011 - 2014: probably Sangakkara, but Clarke and Amla also have claims?
2007 - 2011: Tendulkar/Kallis basically tied for 1st, maybe Sachin if you had to pick one
2002 - 2007: Ponting (Dravid and Kallis not too far behind)
1996 - 2002: Tendulkar
1993 - 1996: Lara (Waugh and Tendulkar not that far behind)
1990 - 1993: Gooch
1981 - 1989: Border (Javed and Richards close)
1976 - 1981: Richards
1972 - 1976: Greg Chappell
1958 - 1972: Sobers (could Pollock have pushed for this if not for Apartheid?)
1954 - 1958: Walcott? May? Harvey? Compton? Lots of guys you could make a case for. Forced to call, Peter May maybe?
1948 - 1954: Hutton (with Harvey and Weekes close by)
1930 - 1948: Bradman
1927 - 1930: Hammond
1909 - 1927: Hobbs
1899 - 1909: Trumper (could make a case for Clem Hill?)
1895 - 1899: Ranjitsinhji
before 1895: Grace

2017 - present: Cummins
2015 - 2017: Anderson? (cases could also be made for Broad, Ashwin, Starc, Hazlewood....)
2007 - 2015: Steyn (Johnson maybe challenged him during the 2013/14 summer?)
2001 - 2007: McGrath (Murali very close and would've been top during the period where McGrath was long-term injured)
1995 - 2001: McGrath probably top here too, but Donald, Ambrose and Pollock would've had claims too
1990 - 1995: probably Waqar, though Ambrose, Wasim and Warne were very close too
1982 - 1989: Marshall, Hadlee and Imran close to tied, Marshall maybe slightly ahead?
1971 - 1982: Mostly Lillee, but at various points Holding, Garner and Imran might've had claims and there was a period where he was missing through injury and then it's a complete lottery - Max Walker maybe?
1967 - 1971: Proctor, if you rule him out for not playing enough Tests then Snow probably
1964 - 1967: Crazy as it sounds, the answer might be Ken Higgs
1957 - 1964: Trueman
1953 - 1957: Probably Laker or Tyson
1946 - 1953: Lindwall
1933 - 1939: O'Reilly
1928 - 1933: Larwood
1924 - 1928: Tate
1920 - 1924: Gregory
1907 - 1914: Barnes
1902 - 1907: Rhodes
1897 - 1902: Trumble
1896 - 1897: Richardson
1886 - 1896: Lohmann
before 1886: Spofforth

if you say anderson for 2015-2017 i reckon you could make a better argument for herath imho

 

[Line and Length]

if you say anderson for 2015-2017 i reckon you could make a better argument for herath imho

I don't agree. While I realise we are comparing an opening bowler to a spinner, the stats come out in Anderson's favour.

Anderson 142w @ 21.0
Herath 146w @ 26.2

 

[Sunil1z]

I don't agree. While I realise we are comparing an opening bowler to a spinner, the stats come out in Anderson's favour.

Anderson 142w @ 21.0
Herath 146w @ 26.2

Ashwin 190@22

 

[Burgey]

and these other batsmen also above 55: Border

 

[Shady Slim]

I don't agree. While I realise we are comparing an opening bowler to a spinner, the stats come out in Anderson's favour.

Anderson 142w @ 21.0
Herath 146w @ 26.2

depends on what stat you pick though; herath clocks out with 12 5fa's and 5 10fa's to anderson's 9 5fa 1 10fa; sunilz's ashwin comes out with 17 5fa 5 10fa which is also enormous. herath is also sitting on 4.9 wpm to the 4.2 of anderson across that period. further to that and what doesn't show on the stats, is that while many point to sandpaper as ending darren lehmann's time as australia coach it was rangana obliterating us on that lanka tour that exposed that era of australia imho

 

[TheJediBrah]

The overrating of Herath here is absurd

 

[Line and Length]

depends on what stat you pick though; herath clocks out with 12 5fa's and 5 10fa's to anderson's 9 5fa 1 10fa; sunilz's ashwin comes out with 17 5fa 5 10fa which is also enormous. herath is also sitting on 4.9 wpm to the 4.2 of anderson across that period. further to that and what doesn't show on the stats, is that while many point to sandpaper as ending darren lehmann's time as australia coach it was rangana obliterating us on that lanka tour that exposed that era of australia imho

These stats simply emphasise that SL were more reliant on Herath than England was on Anderson. You have to consider who their co-bowlers were and how they shared the wickets.

 

[Shady Slim]

These stats simply emphasise that SL were more reliant on Herath than England was on Anderson. You have to consider who their co-bowlers were and how they shared the wickets.

and from that could the argument not run that with less support on hand herath's numbers are more impressive? or conversely the argument could run opposite that anderson could have more bulk wickets if his supporting cast weren't as good; which is why just throwing out stats alone is a bit unhelpful imho

 

[Line and Length]

and from that could the argument not run that with less support on hand herath's numbers are more impressive? or conversely the argument could run opposite that anderson could have more bulk wickets if his supporting cast weren't as good; which is why just throwing out stats alone is a bit unhelpful imho

Then why did you do it? ... adding all sorts of stats such as 5fa's, 10fa's and wpm doesn't change the big average disparity.

 

[Shady Slim]

Then why did you do it? ... adding all sorts of stats such as 5fa's, 10fa's and wpm doesn't change the big average disparity.

throwing out the average alone is what i'm talking about as personally a bit unhelpful, just as it's unhelpful to throw out rpm alone or 5fa-10fa alone; to me i think herath (and ashwin as sunilz noted) have got a better claim to being the best bowler in the world for that period, from mixing those stats with some qualitative analysis

 

[Adders]

?

Really should just stick with this policy itbt Shady.

 

[TheJediBrah]

throwing out the average alone is what i'm talking about as personally a bit unhelpful, just as it's unhelpful to throw out rpm alone or 5fa-10fa alone

No. It's not unilaterally decisive but average alone is a much better indicator than 5-fors or 10-fors.

 

[Shady Slim]

No. It's not unilaterally decisive but average alone is a much better indicator than 5-fors or 10-fors.

depends really; because it could well be that the bloke with significantly more ten fors did a lot more match winning
for example if we say a five for is worth one Big Game Point and ten's are worth two Big Game Points, herath clocks in the winner 32-11

 

[_00_deathscar]

How did this turn into a Herath thread?

 

[Coronis]

How did this turn into a Herath thread?

How can you not talk about Herath in a Steve Smith thread cmon mate. He dismissed him 5 times in a single series.

 

[honestbharani]

How did this turn into a Herath thread?

The spirit of Migara consumed Shady. Had to happen eventually.

The forces tell me TJB is next.