The legacy of Steve Smith

[honestbharani]

I agree with Serbie and others and I called it much earlier in the thread. The only rider is that his career is still in progress and as unthinkable as it is, people have serious dips in form esp. towards the end of their careers.


He is definitely in the 2nd tier of GOAT batsmen (top tier being just Bradman) and for me, at this point, second best to Bradman for sure. Denying this is like denying Virat's GOATness in the ODI format.

As an aside, I think the same applies for Virat in ODIs. To me the God tier there being Viv.

 

[Ashes81]

Smith is truly exceptional- he's very much in the conversation for the 2nd best batsman ever in tests.

 

[halba]

Smith is truly exceptional- he's very much in the conversation for the 2nd best batsman ever in tests.

first- bradman.

he still got to play a few more years to take on guys like ponting & kallis & dravid at 13000 test runs. tendulkar at 16,000 test runs is possibly not happening- note tendulkar debut at 16 years old to make that number.

Smith has hinted at an early retirement, so he will fall short of the above guys most likely. He can enjoy the retirement, he has made millions.

Australian team will head back to the 'pack' once SPD smith retires- similar to how Kallis and co retirement hurt SAF- but not quite that extreme as Labu will be playing a long time.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Smith's peak is so good that he doesn't need Tendulkar/Lara level longevity to surpass them. Much less Ponting Kallis dravid who he's left behind already.

 

[subshakerz]

Smith's peak is so good that he doesn't need Tendulkar/Lara level longevity to surpass them. Much less Ponting Kallis dravid who he's left behind already.

Actually, the crazy about Smith is not as much his peak, it is the fact that he is averaging 50 post-peak.

 

[subshakerz]

Smith's peak is so good that he doesn't need Tendulkar/Lara level longevity to surpass them. Much less Ponting Kallis dravid who he's left behind already.

I think he needs another 10-15 more matches before longevity is a non-issue.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Actually, the crazy about Smith is not as much his peak, it is the fact that he is averaging 50 post-peak.

Yea - Kohli, Root and Williamson all had 70 or close peaks too (maybe for a shorter number of tests though).
But Kohli is since averaging 20-odd. We thought this was Smith’s dip too but he’s doing more than fine. I will caveat it with the pitches have been very kind to him of late playing him back into form - the “bowler’s era” thing - he actually only averaged 40 odd in that 3-4 year period.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I think he needs another 10-15 more matches before longevity is a non-issue.

Nah 120 is still a huge difference from 160 etc.
Sachin averaged 57 or 58 after 170 tests or something but ended up at 53.

 

[subshakerz]

Nah 120 is still a huge difference from 160 etc.
Sachin averaged 57 or 58 after 170 tests or something but ended up at 53.

It depends on how much of a lead Smith has. Averaging 57 from 120 tests may make it more debatable. Averaging 60 plus from 120 tests and then retiring, it is pretty hard to argue he hasnt done enough to prove himself.

 

[subshakerz]

Yea - Kohli, Root and Williamson all had 70 or close peaks too (maybe for a shorter number of tests though).
But Kohli is since averaging 20-odd. We thought this was Smith’s dip too but he’s doing more than fine. I will caveat it with the pitches have been very kind to him of late playing him back into form - the “bowler’s era” thing - he actually only averaged 40 odd in that 3-4 year period.

Since his Ashes 2019, Smith now averages 49.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Since his Ashes 2019, Smith now averages 49.

Yea, my point is it has been propped up by recent series vs Windies and SA and awful pitches in Pakistan. There was a period he looked in discomfort for a while although still didn’t let his average dip too drastically. But that’s also to be admired about him - in his troughs he found a way to keep making a 40 here, 60-70 there etc between single digit scored and didn’t let it go on for too long. Then when some combo of flat pitches/**** opposition presented an opportunity he cashed in again.

I also think the ban and Covid helped maintain his average if you can call it that - he looked truly terrible for a while there.

 

[Slifer]

Yea, my point is it has been propped up by recent series vs Windies and SA and awful pitches in Pakistan. There was a period he looked in discomfort for a while although still didn’t let his average dip too drastically. But that’s also to be admired about him - in his troughs he found a way to keep making a 40 here, 60-70 there etc between single digit scored and didn’t let it go on for too long. Then when some combo of flat pitches/**** opposition presented an opportunity he cashed in again.

I also think the ban and Covid helped maintain his average if you can call it that - he looked truly terrible for a while there.

No. During his ban, he missed 8 tests: 2 in Pak and 4 at home to India and 2 at home to SL. The series right after in England vs Archer and co, he scored a million runs. Maybe he middles it vs Pak away but he likely would've (imo) absolutely hammered India and especially SL at home.

 

[Flem274*]

My all time side tends to have a rotation of various awesome players in the middle order. I've been putting Viv at #5 for the fun of it but Smith looks very solid there.

Hobbs
Gavaskar
Bradman
Tendulkar
Smith
Sobers
Gilchrist
Imran
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne

ATG XIs become more and more OP over time as we get more candidates for them.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

30 tons at a 60+ average. Insanity.

Thats Sachin minus last 10 years of career.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Sachin's avg was 58 when he scored 30th century.
Only 4 other batsmen ( among top 50 run scorers of the period ) managed to achieve 50 avg.
2nd highest avg was 52+ ( 5 points less than Sachin )

Smith averages about 61
7 other batsmen averaged above 50
4 of them managed 55+
3 of them above 59

And Sachin played for another 10 years.

 

[WICFan]

I don't see him retiring from test cricket anytime soon, I think he'll stick around long enough after Warner and Khawaja go to help with any rebuild, if he's around until the next home Ashes series that'll give him around 25-30 more tests.

 

[Coronis]

Yeah when did he hint at an early retirement?

Fun stat; Smith is one of 16 players (Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hammond, Bradman, Paynter, Hutton, Sobers, Barrington, Chappell, Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Flower, Kallis, Dravid and Sangakkara being the others) to average 50+ both home and away (min 10 innings for both).

Of those, Bradman, Sutcliffe, Hutton and Smith all average 55+ both home and away.

 

[_00_deathscar]

No. During his ban, he missed 8 tests: 2 in Pak and 4 at home to India and 2 at home to SL. The series right after in England vs Archer and co, he scored a million runs. Maybe he middles it vs Pak away but he likely would've (imo) absolutely hammered India and especially SL at home.

That’s not playing the situation - he didn’t look in good nick starting the South Africa series up till the recent BG one (maybe even slightly after that - he only really regained form in the Lanka/Pakistan series very recently). The England 2019 ashes was an exception for him in this period. I’m not saying he Kohli-Ed it (he still at at least some decent/useful contributions) but he wasn’t looking like an immortal averaging 60/70
And seeing as he didn’t hammer India at home recently, not sure it’s a given he’d have done it in 2018 either.

 

[Slifer]

That’s not playing the situation - he didn’t look in good nick starting the South Africa series up till the recent BG one (maybe even slightly after that - he only really regained form in the Lanka/Pakistan series very recently). The England 2019 ashes was an exception for him in this period. I’m not saying he Kohli-Ed it (he still at at least some decent/useful contributions) but he wasn’t looking like an immortal averaging 60/70
And seeing as he didn’t hammer India at home recently, not sure it’s a given he’d have done it in 2018 either.

Not a given he wouldn't. And then there's SL.

 

[trundler]

It's not the aggregates that make Smith stand out though. It's the fact that he looks absolutely ominous a la peak Lara and Viv and at his 'worst' manages to scrape 50s. In between he can usually be relied upon to get at least one ton in every series he plays. His away record is spotless too. It would almost be less impressive if he had more not doubles against WI, SL, and Pak at home but he doesn't do big knocks either. ****er doesn't even slow down in the 90s and is a 0 on the Chanderpaul scale of self preservation. You could reasonably adjust his average downwards because of early 10s pancakes but the overall context surrounding his relentless run scoring elevates him if anything.