Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Chris Harris and Kumar Dharmasena
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
What is your definition of ATG?
- Thread starter subshakerz
- Start date
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
J. Ryder
B. McCullum
G. Elliott
W. Young
G. Phillips
F. Allen
C. Anderson/J. Neesham
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Ah the man who mastered batting against spin bowling
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
True but most eras will likely produce at least 1 and usually not more than 4-5.
Athlai
Not Terrible
ATG Ribbed for her pleasure thanks
It's an interesting debate as to what constitutes an ATG.
Obviously you have to have an outstanding record, be able to perform in all conditions, perform at your best when it really matters and perhaps also influence the game going forward.
The problem is that if you delve deep enough, you can find a crack, however small, in nearly everyone's record.
A really good example of that is Shane Warne. I'd certainly argue he's an ATG and I'm sure virtually everyone would agree.
But his record in India (34 kts at 43) and the West Indies (53 wkts at 40) is very poor.
It's the same with Murali - he's got an unbelievable record but wasn't great in either India or Australia.
So can either Murali or Warne be an ATG even with those stats - I'd argue yes.
Obviously you have to have an outstanding record, be able to perform in all conditions, perform at your best when it really matters and perhaps also influence the game going forward.
The problem is that if you delve deep enough, you can find a crack, however small, in nearly everyone's record.
A really good example of that is Shane Warne. I'd certainly argue he's an ATG and I'm sure virtually everyone would agree.
But his record in India (34 kts at 43) and the West Indies (53 wkts at 40) is very poor.
It's the same with Murali - he's got an unbelievable record but wasn't great in either India or Australia.
So can either Murali or Warne be an ATG even with those stats - I'd argue yes.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Nobody suggests that an ATG has to have a perfect record.
It is an outstanding record compared to peers of his time + great reputation compared to peers of his time.
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
This is a reasonable criterion IMO:
stats.espncricinfo.com
All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
ataraxia
International Coach
Agreed, apart from the 100-wicket requirement. Longevity schmongevity.This is a reasonable criterion IMO:
All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Sunil1z
International Regular
Even more reasonable criteria imo?This is a reasonable criterion IMO:
All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Attachments
ataraxia
International Coach
it's even funnier IMO because MotM awards are biased towards the sorts of 'match-winning performances' trundlers of the world crave
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
This just strenghtens my conviction that MoM/MoS awards are a farce.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
Did you mean to have 'peers of his time' two times or did you mean to say 'peers of any time' for one of those? Because then surely Ashwin/Jadeja qualify according to your basis - but you don't consider them as ATGs as I recall.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Ashwin and Jadeja have fairly ordinary records away from SC even by the standards of their time. They are both great spinners but I don't think their reputations are quite as standout. Similar to Murali in the 90s who wouldnt have been considered an ATG at that point and more of a home bully.
ZK$
U19 Cricketer
I’m interested in seeing your list of ATGs just to see where your cutoff between ATG and Great is.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Australia: Bradman, Miller, Lillee, Chappell, Border, Warne, McGrath, Waugh, Ponting, Smith, maybe Lindwall and O'Reilly
WI: Headley, Sobers, Viv, Marshall, Ambrose, Lara
Pakistan: Imran, Wasim
India: Gavaskar, Tendulkar, maybe Kapil
SA: Kallis, Steyn, Donald, maybe G.Pollock and S. Pollock
NZ: Hadlee
SL: Murali, maybe Sanga
England: Barnes, Hutton, Hobbs, Trueman, Botham, maybe Laker
Maybe I am missing 1-2. Kallis and Pollock can make it as allrounder players, not based on their main discipline.
But overall around 30 - 35 ATGs in cricket history by my reckoning.
Last edited:
ZK$
U19 Cricketer
That’s interesting. Mine is definitely a bit more lenient.
Victor Ian
International Coach
I like subshakers list. Way too many people tagged as all time great.
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
I like it because half of them are Aussies
Boland to break in by the end of his career
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
WG is probably the 3rd best player of all time, so a huge misd. Definitely need Hammond in there along with some keepers (Gilchrist, Knott, Ames, perhaps Flower although mediocre with the gloves). Watling just misses out.
I reckon 60-70 ATGs.