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All time ODI XI

S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
trundler said:
Imran still has a significantly higher RPI than Kapil. I'm saying if we're ignoring era differences entirely (fair) then Kapil is Moeen Ali with the bat which I don't think is true. You have to take both his great SR and meh average together. I see strike rate as more of a tie breaker for batsmen with a similar level of output and it matters more lower down the order but it's still too big a chasm.
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I think this is the point of difference. Imran is simply a better bat than Kapil and capable of accelerating when needed while Kapil's average suggests he has no consistency and is literally hit and miss. Kapil is more of a no.8 than a no.7 for an ATG XI.
 
G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
Pollock should be considered for an ODI XI basis his bowling alone. 393 wickets@24.50. Then you find at 7, he strikes at 88 and averages 30. Then he becomes an automatic lock
 
G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
subshakerz said:
I think this is the point of difference. Imran is simply a better bat than Kapil and capable of accelerating when needed while Kapil's average suggests he has no consistency and is literally hit and miss. Kapil is more of a no.8 than a no.7 for an ATG XI.
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We never said Kapil was a better bat than Imran, and we discussing 7 only.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Godard said:
Imran averages 30 at 6 and 28 at 7, where Kapil averages 26 and 24. What is the chasm? The only chasm is between the SR of 97 and 88 and 75 and 80.
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This is misleading because as Imran got better, he went up the order. So Imran at 6 and 7 reflects him as a less developed batsman than he ended up being.

If you bring Imran the overall bat to no.7 you are bringing a much better batsman who can score more runs at that position at a slightly lesser rate. You can't just ignore all the runs he scored up the order.
 
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trundler

trundler

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Godard said:
The highest average at 7 is Dhoni@44. Only 6 others average above 30(but all below 35), but none of them are half as good bowlers as Kapil, and none of them have a exceptionally better SR than Kapil. I don’t differentiate between an average of 24 and 28 a lot.
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I was comparing them as overall batsmen. A 10 run average difference can't be compensated by a difference in SR. Going in circles now.

Anyway leaving aside Imran you were saying Kapil qualifies for the all time XI based on his SR which is great regardless of era but his average is poor by modern standards so it evens out.

Kapil is a good fit for an all the XI end that's fine. I don't think batting position specific stats matter that much. 28 at 80 and 23 at 95 are much of a muchness anyway. I was comparing them as ARs overall and it kind of blurred into my line about Kapil's average in an all time context.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
trundler said:
23 is way too low for a #7 in modern times. A guy who averaged 18 but struck at 150 won't be better than Kapil.

All 3 worse than Styris though.
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trundler said:
23 is way too low for a #7 in modern times. A guy who averaged 18 but struck at 150 won't be better than Kapil.

All 3 worse than Styris though.
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Styris wasn't a 7 anyway. In a NZ team it is either McCullum at 7, or one of Harris, C Cairns, or Oram.
 
ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Godard said:
Pollock should be considered for an ODI XI basis his bowling alone. 393 wickets@24.50. Then you find at 7, he strikes at 88 and averages 30. Then he becomes an automatic lock
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If Pollock actually averaged 30, I'd pick him in a heartbeat. He doesn't. Or we are doing average by batting position?
 
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G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
i never said Kapil can qualify for 7 just basis his batting. Nonetheless I agree with what you said above.
trundler said:
I was comparing them as overall batsmen. A 10 run average difference can't be compensated by a difference in SR. Going in circles now.

Anyway leaving aside Imran you were saying Kapil qualifies for the all time XI based on his SR which is great regardless of era but his average is poor by modern standards so it evens out.

Kapil is a good fit for an all the XI end that's fine. I don't think batting position specific stats matter that much. 28 at 80 and 23 at 95 are much of a muchness anyway. I was comparing them as ARs overall and it kind of blurred into my line about Kapil's average in an all time context.
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G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
Godard said:
Overall he averages 26, which is still damn good for a no. 8.
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Klusener is highest for 8, at average of 58, but next highest is from 33. So 26 is pretty good, with a decent enough SR. considering he is an ATG ODI bowler, which Klusener.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
trundler said:
I was comparing them as overall batsmen. A 10 run average difference can't be compensated by a difference in SR. Going in circles now.

Anyway leaving aside Imran you were saying Kapil qualifies for the all time XI based on his SR which is great regardless of era but his average is poor by modern standards so it evens out.

Kapil is a good fit for an all the XI end that's fine. I don't think batting position specific stats matter that much. 28 at 80 and 23 at 95 are much of a muchness anyway. I was comparing them as ARs overall and it kind of blurred into my line about Kapil's average in an all time context.
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The thing is that posters here are not realistically representing how unreliable a Kapil bat would be in. You need someone capable of finishing chases and not just quick hitting.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Godard said:
Again Kapil’s bowling is also a factor. This team only has 4 proper bowlers.
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No. Shakib is a proper bowler. His bowling stats are as at least as good as the other two (probably better).

Shakib: 221 matches, 285 wickets @ 29.47 (e/r 4.44)

Kapil: 225 matches, 253 wickets @ 27.45 (e/r 3.71)

Imran: 175 matches, 182 wickets @26.61 (e/r 3.89)
 
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