All time ODI XI

[Godard]

You are inflating how good Kapil was as a bat. He only scored 14 fifties in a long career. He wasn't as good as Razzaq even. Basically a slogger.

Yes, but he is better than Imran at seven. And he transcended in his era, in the sense of his high SR at 7.

 

[trundler]

All time great players are great for any era. This is why they are called “all time greats”. Again there might be other players from Richards’s era who were great, but only Richards and Abbas are ODI ATGs, not merely great, all time greats I repeat. And yes maybe only Starc and Bumrah are potential ODI ATG bowlers today, because ATG criteria is tough.

This is fair but by the same token Kapil is a 23 averaging batsman. I'm treating him as a guy with a 30 average for cross era comparisons.

 

[Godard]

This is fair but by the same token Kapil is a 23 averaging batsman. I'm treating him as a guy with a 30 average for cross era comparisons.

Yes but I am looking at two factors: his batting SR and approach, and his bowling. It is difficult to find such a combination at 7. And also take his fielding as an added bonus

 

[Godard]

Imran’s average isn’t that great at 7 also(even Imran is sub 30), and a similar bowler, only that Kapil is much more aggressive batsmen.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Can't choose between Kapil or Imran? Pick Hussey at 7 where he averaged 120 at 101 s/r. Easily the best no 7 of all time.

Sachin 7
Gilchrist
Viv 6
Kohli
Shakib 5
ABDV
Hussey
Pollock 1
Wasim 2
Garner 3
Murali 4

 

[subshakerz]

I would take Imran over Kapil only if we are taking Gilly over Dhoni as Keeper.

Imran and Dhoni are two best odi captains for me but if Dhoni is not in your XI then Imran gets in for captaincy aswell.

Since i am having Dhoni as Captain so neither Kapil or Imran get in i go for Klusner as he could do batting roles of both Kapil and Imran but better. He is a weaker bowler then the two but i am looking for a middle overs holding 5th bowler as i already have elite 4 front line bowlers so Zulu along with Sanath does the job abley there aswell.

The harm of a poorer fifth bowler overtakes the potential benefit of a better no.7 for me

 

[trundler]

Yes but I am looking at two factors: his batting SR and approach, and his bowling. It is difficult to find such a combination at 7. And also take his fielding as an added bonus

23 is way too low for a #7 in modern times. A guy who averaged 18 but struck at 150 won't be better than Kapil.

Can't choose between Kapil or Imran? Pick Hussey at 7 where he averaged 120 at 101 s/r. Easily the best no 7 of all time.

Sachin 7
Gilchrist
Viv 6
Kohli
Shakib 5
ABDV
Hussey
Pollock 1
Wasim 2
Garner 3
Murali 4

All 3 worse than Styris though.

 

[Godard]

Can't choose between Kapil or Imran? Pick Hussey at 7 where he averaged 120 at 101 s/r. Easily the best no 7 of all time.

Sachin 7
Gilchrist
Viv 6
Kohli
Shakib 5
ABDV
Hussey
Pollock 1
Wasim 2
Garner 3
Murali 4

Again Kapil’s bowling is also a factor. This team only has 4 proper bowlers.

 

[Godard]

23 is way too low for a #7 in modern times. A guy who averaged 18 but struck at 150 won't be better than Kapil.

All 3 worse than Styris though.

Again find me a guy who can bowl and field like Kapil as well. His average of 23 is low, but he also strikes at 95. It is a combination of all factors.

 

[subshakerz]

To elaborate, there are many batsmen in the 80s and 90s who cant or do not have the scoring options of a well placed drive, or cut, or glide, or flick or even a pull. They can slog the ball or they can block and they tend to do both pretty well. A great example is Klusener. If he came in during a collapse, he just waited and waited and waited till the RRR got to 8 or 9 and then started slogging out. Maybe it helps him get his eye in or whatever but he is definitely successful quite a few times. But, as a fan watching the game, I always felt he did not have the game to take advantage of actual loose balls or gaps in the field which can actually ensure the RRR never got to the out of hand situations in the first place. Post 2015 Dhoni was the same.

To me, I would rather pick batsmen with proper scoring options like Kapil or Stokes over these guys for #7.

Kapil is not Stokes. Stokes is a specialist chaser averaging over 15 points above Kapil. Kapil's specialty is quick-scoring cameos.

 

[Godard]

Kapil clears threshold because of his SR of 95.

 

[honestbharani]

Can't choose between Kapil or Imran? Pick Hussey at 7 where he averaged 120 at 101 s/r. Easily the best no 7 of all time.

Sachin 7
Gilchrist
Viv 6
Kohli
Shakib 5
ABDV
Hussey
Pollock 1
Wasim 2
Garner 3
Murali 4

That is actually not a bad side. I may probably go for Bond over Garner to have the X factor and pace and will switch Jayasuriya and MSD for Shakib and GIlly and Bevan for Virat.


Sachin
Sanath
Viv
Bevan
MSD (c) (wk)
AB
Hussey
Pollock
Wasim
Bond
Murali

This actually works out pretty great.

 

[trundler]

Again find me a guy who can bowl and field like Kapil as well. His average of 23 is low, but he also strikes at 95. It is a combination of all factors.

I'm saying a higher strike rate can't compensate for a low output beyond a point. By modern standards 23 is way below that cutoff.

 

[honestbharani]

Kapil is not Stokes. Stokes is a specialist chaser averaging over 15 points above Kapil. Kapil's specialty is quick-scoring cameos.

Yes, ODI cricket only means chasing.

 

[honestbharani]

I'm saying a higher strike rate can't compensate for a low output beyond a point. By modern standards 23 is way below that cutoff.

RPI is the output, not the average. That is where you are confused.

 

[Godard]

And Imran’s SR at positions of 6 or below is 75 and 80, whereas for Kapil is 97 and 88, and Imran averages barely 30 at 6 and 28 at 7, so not great averages as well.

 

[Sunil1z]

Enough of Kapil vs Imran imo. Both side have made same argument atleast 5 times .

 

[trundler]

RPI is the output, not the average. That is where you are confused.

Imran still has a significantly higher RPI than Kapil. I'm saying if we're ignoring era differences entirely (fair) then Kapil is Moeen Ali with the bat which I don't think is true. You have to take both his great SR and meh average together. I see strike rate as more of a tie breaker for batsmen with a similar level of output and it matters more lower down the order but it's still too big a chasm.

 

[Godard]

I'm saying a higher strike rate can't compensate for a low output beyond a point. By modern standards 23 is way below that cutoff.

The highest average at 7 is Dhoni@44. Only 6 others average above 30(but all below 35), but none of them are half as good bowlers as Kapil, and none of them have a exceptionally better SR than Kapil. I don’t differentiate between an average of 24 and 28 a lot.

 

[Godard]

Imran still has a significantly higher RPI than Kapil. I'm saying if we're ignoring era differences entirely (fair) then Kapil is Moeen Ali with the bat which I don't think is true. You have to take both his great SR and meh average together. I see strike rate as more of a tie breaker for batsmen with a similar level of output and it matters more lower down the order but it's still too big a chasm.

Imran averages 30 at 6 and 28 at 7, where Kapil averages 26 and 24. What is the chasm? The only chasm is between the SR of 97 and 88 and 75 and 80.