All time ODI XI

[srbhkshk]

A well set Dravid was good in last 5 overs. Not a Dravid who will face his first ball in 46th over

His best record in ipl is actually at #5 and 6. I am not actually talking about Imran here because I never saw him in this situation. But I never felt that Dravid couldn't slog if the situation demanded it, he just rarely had to do it.

http://howstat.com/cricket//Statistics/IPL/PlayerPositions.asp?PlayerID=2060

 

[Xuhaib]

Imran was actually a great last 5 overs hitter its his middle overs batting that could be dire, he did a Misbah in the 92 SF and it needed a freak knock from Inzi to overcome the mess he had created.

 

[Godard]

Averages are misleading. Imran is a league ahead of Kapil as a bowler so then you have five high quality bowlers in the lineup.

And people underestimate Imran's smashing skills down the order. Imran at 7 averaged 28 at SR 80. He knew how to accelerate.

Kapil no doubt a better fielder.

Imran sure is a leaguer ahead as a bowler in tests, but in ODIs, Kapil has 90 more wickets at more or less the same average. Plus Kapil has a similar average at 6 and 7, only with SR of 90+, SR of 80 at 7 is the opposite of acceleration in ODIs. Kapil with his SR(far ahead of his time except for Viv), would easily fit into the modern era of powerful finishers, and yes would field much better. I’m not saying Kapil is a better bat than Imran, but at 7 sure he is, and is similar bowler(in ODI’s I repeat).

 

[h_hurricane]

I saw Kapil batting in 1992 WC and he was coming into bat when the scores were not that good, yet gave the finishing momentum to the innings.

42(29) , 33(22) and 35(26) were great cameos in that WC. Will his stocks go up if had scored the same runs, but taking a hell lot of more balls there by giving the artificial impression that he is arresting a collapse. For instance, let's say 42(75), 33(60) and 35(60). I don't think so. I will take those cameos any day over slow Dravid- Kallis like innings in ODIs.

 

[Godard]

Imran sure is a leaguer ahead as a bowler in tests, but in ODIs, Kapil has 90 more wickets at more or less the same average. Plus Kapil has a similar average at 6 and 7, only with SR of 90+, SR of 80 at 7 is the opposite of acceleration in ODIs. Kapil with his SR(far ahead of his time except for Viv), would easily fit into the modern era of powerful finishers, and yes would field much better. I’m not saying Kapil is a better bat than Imran, but at 7 sure he is, and is similar bowler(in ODI’s I repeat).

Kapil has always been an ATG ODI cricketer, which Imran isn’t. Opposite in tests.

 

[subshakerz]

How is he a league ahead of Kapil with pretty much the exact same record in less matches?

Imran also averages 10 points more than Kapil with the bat, do you think he is that much better or maybe averages are misleading?

Because Imran's bowling was affected in his last couple of years when he became a frontline middle order bat. His overall averages make him seem a slightly worse bowler and slightly better bat than he was most of his career.

Around 80 percent of his career, he was a 22/23 averaging bowler and 27/28 averaging bat which is a better way to see him.

 

[subshakerz]

SR of 80 is acceleration ???

Relative to his time, yes.

No doubt Kapil was a faster scorer but you need a better quality bat at no.7

 

[Sunil1z]

Kapil was no.1 ranked all rounder throughout the 80s (atleast 90%) .

 

[h_hurricane]

Imran also averages 10 points more than Kapil with the bat, do you think he is that much better or maybe averages are misleading?

Because Imran's bowling was affected in his last couple of years when he became a frontline middle order bat. His overall averages make him seem a slightly worse bowler and slightly better bat than he was most of his career.

Around 80 percent of his career, he was a 22/23 averaging bowler and 27/28 averaging bat which is a better way to see him.

Kapil for a 4 year period in the mid 80s was like Sehwag with the bat and Mcgrath with the ball. I don't think Imran ever really reached those heights in ODIs. He is better batting up the order for sure than Kapil, but Kapil is easily better lower down the order.

 

[subshakerz]

Afridi is a perfect batsman to come at 7 with 5 overs to go . Far better than Imran Khan whose Batting strike rate was like Rahul Dravid . Imagine Dravid batting in last 5 overs .

Not really. Afridi had a less successful run down the order for Pakistan than you would think. He was better pinch-hitting when there was less pressure to do so.

 

[Sunil1z]

Relative to his time, yes.

No doubt Kapil was a faster scorer but you need a better quality bat at no.7

In a weaker batting unit , Imran is perfectly acceptable at 7 . But he isn’t needed in an ATG batting line up at 7. You should have Imran over Kapil only if you feel he was a much superior ODI bowler .

 

[trundler]

Imran below top 5 batting position in ODI is like Dhoni from 15-19 WC . He will simply destroy the batting momentum. If you are so much worried about batting collapse then have both Kapil + Pollock .

You are basing this off his latter years when he played as a top order batsman though. He adopted an anchor role and played more slowly like most other top order batsmen later on. A strike of 72 in that era is pretty decent and his strike rate lower down the order is closer to run a ball. Not as good a #7 as Dev though.

 

[Sunil1z]

Not really. Afridi had a less successful run down the order for Pakistan than you would think. He was better pinch-hitting when there was less pressure to do so.

I still remember his CT 2004 knock , Asia cup 2014 knock vs us . If a team needs to defend 40 runs in last 5 overs, Afridi would kill the game in 1 over.

 

[subshakerz]

Kapil for a 4 year period in the mid 80s was like Sehwag with the bat and Mcgrath with the ball. I don't think Imran ever really reached those heights in ODIs. He is better batting up the order for sure than Kapil, but Kapil is easily better lower down the order.

Imran also had his golden period in the late 80s with strong figures as well.

I would back Kapil over Imran to hit out the last five overs with a score already set. But I would back Imran over Kapil to finish a game chasing or shore up with the rest of the lower order if there is a collapse.

 

[trundler]

More over Imran averages 28 and 15 at batting position 7 and 8 . His best batting position is at 3 and 4 . So if you want Imran so desperately then drop either Kohli or Richards ?

That's just because he started batting higher up the order when he got better. Kapil averages 26 and 24 at 6/7 too. Imran at 6 averaged 30 and 28 at 7.

 

[Sunil1z]

You are basing this off his latter years when he played as a top order batsman though. He adopted an anchor role and played more slowly like most other top order batsmen later on. A strike of 72 in that era is pretty decent and his strike rate lower down the order is closer to run a ball. Not as good a #7 as Dev though.

Imran is a perfect batsman for a weak batting unit . However I don’t think his batting is needed for a strong batting unit ( at 7 position)

 

[subshakerz]

I still remember his CT 2004 knock , Asia cup 2014 knock vs us . If a team needs to defend 40 runs in last 5 overs, Afridi would kill the game in 1 over.

He had his good knocks but someone like Razzaq was much better in that role while Afridi did more damage up the order.

 

[ankitj]

Afridi is a perfect batsman to come at 7 with 5 overs to go . Far better than Imran Khan whose Batting strike rate was like Rahul Dravid . Imagine Dravid batting in last 5 overs .

Ok but this whole chain of posts started when you said Kapil can be helpful in collapses.

I recognise that Imran at #7 is far from a perfect choice and very debatable.

 

[subshakerz]

Kapil has always been an ATG ODI cricketer, which Imran isn’t. Opposite in tests.

This is just CW conventional logic. Imran was always an ODI elite.

 

[trundler]

SR of 80 is acceleration ???

Do you think De Silva, Jones and Lloyd were slow batsmen?