Group 1 (Afghanistan, Australia, England, New Zealand, Sri Lanka, Ireland)

[Ashes81]

I don't think NZ did a whole lot wrong today apart from dropping Buttler twice. This allowed England to get 20 runs or so above par.

When he's on song, Buttler is good as anyone around and he's impossible to contain. He got good support from Hales and 180 was always a big ask.

Conway struggled against Moeen and apart from Phillips, who was outstanding, nobody else really got going.

But NZ are a real threat to any team and should they meet England again in this competition, it would be a pretty much 50/50 game.

 

[NZTailender]

I didn't watch our batting but in the bowling innings everything about NZ seemed a little off. Like they were trying to match the intensity and level they played against Australia but didn't quite get there, or overthought it.

Anyway I hope that's our tournament loss out of the way that makes the players reflect and we just steamroll on from here.

 

[Ashes81]

Livingstone strikes me as a Glenn Maxwell, bats in the highlights and outrageousness stakes sort of guy. Massively talented hitter but gets twitchy if he's not doing crazy stuff. The ball he scooped for four off Ferguson was a fluke, an inside edge that he clearly didn't have mastery of...then he did it again, almost as if he wanted to prove to himself it wasn't a fluke. It was probably in the hole if he'd stood still and hit it straight.

I think Maxwell is a better player than Livingston.

Livingston is a brutal hitter but he doesn't really build an innings, everything is at full throttle, a bit like Tim David or Tristan Stubbs.

Livingston doesn't really have the ramp in his locker as he showed today.

 

[Bahnz]

I didn't watch our batting but in the bowling innings everything about NZ seemed a little off. Like they were trying to match the intensity and level they played against Australia but didn't quite get there, or overthought it.

Anyway I hope that's our tournament loss out of the way that makes the players reflect and we just steamroll on from here.

I had a feeling it wasn't going to be NZ's game when Hales got that peach of an inswinger from Boult in the first over and inside edged it past leg-stump for 4.

 

[Bahnz]

I don't think NZ did a whole lot wrong today apart from dropping Buttler twice. This allowed England to get 20 runs or so above par.

When he's on song, Buttler is good as anyone around and he's impossible to contain. He got good support from Hales and 180 was always a big ask.

Conway struggled against Moeen and apart from Phillips, who was outstanding, nobody else really got going.

But NZ are a real threat to any team and should they meet England again in this competition, it would be a pretty much 50/50 game.

A fair amount being made of Buttler's drop and fair enough, but England also gave Phillips a life. In the end, I think on quicker wickets England's batting will have too much for NZ most of the time.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

-When was the last time Jimmy Neesham played an innings of substance?

He's had quite a few very quick 20s. Got a 33 off 15 vs the Windies a couple of months ago. In the same match a certain Kane Williamson got 47 off 33 which wouldn't go amiss in a World Cup semi.

 

[TheJediBrah]

**** this thread jumped 30 pages overnight

NZ must have lost a cricket match again

 

[centurymaker]

This should be Kane's last T20 WC.

He's a bit of a liability in this format, especially on these bigger grounds.

 

[Flem274*]

A fair amount being made of Buttler's drop and fair enough, but England also gave Phillips a life. In the end, I think on quicker wickets England's batting will have too much for NZ most of the time.

The wicket wasn't very quick (though Wood was), and I'd have preferred a quicker wicket tbh. England have 3 (2 and a half?) dangerous spinners and they got serious assistance, plus Woakes and Curran on a quicker deck is tastier than one they can bowl cutters on. More bounce would help Southee use his height. He was the tallest bowler on either side by a lot, even if he's slow these days.

Also that speedgun was rigged last night. Boult hasn't bowled 145kph in years and Sam Curran hit 137kph a few times. Yeah right. Seems to happen a lot in games involving Mark Wood, probably because the broadcast are hoping he can crack 160kph if they pump the gun.

 

[Skyliner]

Bit of a choke from NZ last night when in the field.

People can lambast Kane all they like but if he wasn’t there last night maybe we wouldn’t have even got within cooee of Englands total. Aside from Philips, who of the batsmen contributed a decent score? While Kane was out there he was glueing the innings together and turning the strike over to Philips who was ensuring that we were staying within touch of the scoring rate required. You still need partnerships no matter what form of cricket is being played.

I remember Kane’s batting performance in the final against Australia last year. He stood up. On a day when everyone else is falling over, he will probably stand up and help get a score on the board.

 

[Daemon]

People can lambast Kane all they like but if he wasn’t there last night maybe we wouldn’t have even got within cooee of Englands total. Aside from Philips, who of the batsmen contributed a decent score? While Kane was out there he was glueing the innings together and turning the strike over to Philips who was ensuring that we were staying within touch of the scoring rate required. You still need partnerships no matter what form of cricket is being played.

Nah come on. The others barely got a chance to have a crack, they just had to come out swinging because it was >12 an over needed when Kane got out. It was a very poor innings.

 

[Burgey]

I think Maxwell is a better player than Livingston.

Livingston is a brutal hitter but he doesn't really build an innings, everything is at full throttle, a bit like Tim David or Tristan Stubbs.

Livingston doesn't really have the ramp in his locker as he showed today.

He is pretty handy for England because after batting he incredibly turns into Chris Jordan when it's time to field.

 

[SteveNZ]

I think Maxwell is a better player than Livingston.

Livingston is a brutal hitter but he doesn't really build an innings, everything is at full throttle, a bit like Tim David or Tristan Stubbs.

Livingston doesn't really have the ramp in his locker as he showed today.

Glenn Maxwell is a walking meme nowadays. He's taken to hitting hockey shots down the ground and random reverse sweeps even when the situation doesn't call for it

 

[SteveNZ]

Bit of a choke from NZ last night when in the field.

People can lambast Kane all they like but if he wasn’t there last night maybe we wouldn’t have even got within cooee of Englands total. Aside from Philips, who of the batsmen contributed a decent score? While Kane was out there he was glueing the innings together and turning the strike over to Philips who was ensuring that we were staying within touch of the scoring rate required. You still need partnerships no matter what form of cricket is being played.

I remember Kane’s batting performance in the final against Australia last year. He stood up. On a day when everyone else is falling over, he will probably stand up and help get a score on the board.

You should be a talkback host. Your ability to find the opposite opinion to the masses is unparalleled

I did make a similar point that you did, in that no one else contributed, but what point is getting within cooee if you're not on target? Are we happy with Kane now because 'everyone else did worse'? I hope that's not our marker. 40 off 40 is of very little use to us chasing 9 an over.

Kane was immense in that final, no doubt. But it's been a bit of a red herring with his T20 form in the IPL and for NZ over the last two years.

 

[Athlai]

I don't particularly blame Kane. We were favourites with around 6 overs to go after his innings.

 

[Daemon]

I don't particularly blame Kane. We were favourites with around 6 overs to go after his innings.

I mean that was despite him, not because of. You can’t have the yardstick for attributing blame so low that it only applies when the player leaves you in an unwinnable situation. Otherwise you can have a player come in with 50 to win from 50, play a 20 ball duck and then still say oh we were still favourites.

 

[Son Of Coco]

He is pretty handy for England because after batting he incredibly turns into Chris Jordan when it's time to field.

It's really weird. If anything, it is Alex Hales who I would expect to turn into Chris Jordan.

England are experts at adding their own asterisks to their efforts through their addiction to finding some way of cheating. #murraymints #neverforget #bowlersubshowers #captainsrunningofftogetadviceoffthecoach #subfielders #*****

 

[Athlai]

I mean that was despite him, not because of. You can’t have the yardstick for attributing blame so low that it only applies when the player leaves you in an unwinnable situation. Otherwise you can have a player come in with 50 to win from 50, play a 20 ball duck and then still say oh we were still favourites.

Conway/Finn going for nothing, while Philips smashed it, makes me a lot more ready to forgive Kane getting us a platform that keeps us in the game.

 

[Skyliner]

Nah come on. The others barely got a chance to have a crack, they just had to come out swinging because it was >12 an over needed when Kane got out. It was a very poor innings.

That’s what someone like Jimmy Neesham does though. He trains to come out and go bang from ball one (he did it last night) - but unfortunately he could not go on with it.

The pitch was a bit two-paced last night, batting wasn’t ‘easy’ for anyone in our innings, & that ‘two pacedness’ contributed to some of our dismissals. I think it contributed to Finn’s and Jimmy’s dismissals. On another night maybe Jimmy and Glenn get the job done.

By and large I agree with people who say Kane needs to up his scoring rate. I’m just not going to pile blame onto him as a scapegoat on a night when key catches were dropped, the openers didn’t fire, and our finishers didn’t finish.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Nah come on. The others barely got a chance to have a crack, they just had to come out swinging because it was >12 an over needed when Kane got out. It was a very poor innings.

You're replying to a guy who complained literally the day after we won the WTC final.