Jacques Kallis vs Allan Border

[subshakerz]

Oh it's complete bull**** for sure.

"This guy A was probably not rated as highly as B during his career so we should continue thinking that regardless of whether it was correct" wtf? Meaningless and dumb

Whatever. Saying a cricketer stood out more in his era than another cricketer as a point of reference is something half the posters here do.

Yet as usual, a few posters want to take a minor point and generate some fake outrage over it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

While I can't really make up my mind on who is the better bat, Border is who I'd choose to bat for my life. Kallis is who I'd choose to bat for his own life.

This is really deep and a great point.

Border played in a pretty **** team for most of his time and Kallis played in a very strong team for most his time . . . been plenty of times posters have used this as a point of difference to big up their favourites . . .

 

[StephenZA]

Geez, stop being so squeamish. Saying Border may have been more highly rated as a bat by his peers than Kallis is not a shocking or offensive opinion, even if you disagree with it. And its not like my only point, I mentioned Kallis failing in England which may have been one reason he wasnt as fancied.

Kallis supporters like having it both ways, moaning about how he never got his full credit yet when someone points out that he wasnt rated as highly as others, they also flip out.

I have no problem you rating Border greater than Kallis... it is the **** you make up because you are trying to try justify that opinion. Have an opinion don't make **** up to try justify your opinion.

 

[BazBall21]

Enjoying this. Border slightly ahead for mine. The system is certainly not perfect, but Border averages slightly more than Kallis against bowling attacks that are classified as better than median attacks. Given the fact he played in the lower-scoring era, that is probably a point worth noting despite the system not being perfect, that and his away record.

 

[subshakerz]

Border was not rated higher by his peers - this is not a point of difference

How the heck do you know he wasn't? I find it bizarre the degree to which history is written here about Kallis as if in the mid-2000s he was really seen as competing with Ponting for the top spot.

 

[TheJediBrah]

it is the **** you make up because you are trying to try justify that opinion. Have an opinion don't make **** up to try justify your opinion.

Literally what 90% of people do in these threads

 

[subshakerz]

I have no problem you rating Border greater than Kallis... it is the **** you make up because you are trying to try justify that opinion. Have an opinion don't make **** up to try justify your opinion.

Your entire overly glorified narrative on Kallis is made-up frankly.

 

[StephenZA]

Literally what 90% of people do in these threads

Yes but there is always levels of **** though... some people pile it higher than others. And none of it makes it right.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't think it should be that controversial to say Border was rated higher during his time than Kallis was. Don't people argue Kallis was underappreciated?

Now whether the above should matter one bit as to who should be looked at as better now (it shouldn't) is a different story.

 

[StephenZA]

Your entire overly glorified narrative on Kallis is made-up frankly.

Show my glorified narrative anywhere in this thread?

 

[BazBall21]

I think Javed was rated on par with Border while they were both playing. Border is rated higher now because of how balanced his distribution his runs were. Although Marshall was partly rated down due to the English/Australian media flat out not liking 80s WI, it is a similar case that he is now rated higher due to how balanced his record is.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't think it should be that controversial to say Border was rated higher during his time than Kallis was. Don't people argue Kallis was underappreciated?

Yes, I pointed this out earlier. You may not think its a relevant point but it is still a fact.

 

[TheJediBrah]

How the heck do you know he wasn't? I find it bizarre the degree to which history is written here about Kallis as if in the mid-2000s he was really seen as competing with Ponting for the top spot.

I don't really know if he was I just thought it was a bad argument regardless and I called you out on it because h_hurricane is a sensitive flower and I didn't want him to think he was being picked on alone

 

[StephenZA]

Yes, I pointed this out earlier. You may not think its a relevant point but it is still a fact.

You stating **** as a fact does not make it a fact...

 

[ashley bach]

Border was real good, 10/10 for guts and determination, but Jacques was better.
Only thing surprising was he never kicked on with huge innings, 224 being his high score.

 

[Victor Ian]

Border was real good, 10/10 for guts and determination, but Jacques was better.
Only thing surprising was he never kicked on with huge innings, 224 being his high score.

I think that is not a negative. He just scored enough to keep SA strong without overdoing it. What's the point of scoring 300+? It's not like it makes you win more than 150+. (unverified - but would be cool if someone can prove that one way or the other). Most of the time you are just wasting time that your bowlers could use to win matches.

 

[subshakerz]

Can any Kallis the Mighty supporter please explain why his relatively poor record in England and SL doesnt demote him compared to other ATGs?

I can't recall an ATG who doesnt average at least 40 in England. Seems like a fairly important country to go missing in then.

I asked this in the Kallis vs Waugh thread and didnt get a real response.

 

[BazBall21]

Sanga and Gavaskar struggled most of the time in England yet still got their averages over 40 there.

 

[Victor Ian]

doesnt everyone have an under 40 blip against one or two nations (rxcept tendulkar).? its not really as big a thing as people like to make out as looking at particular opposition means your sample size is reduced so it could just be a quirk that would have corrected with more games.

 

[ashley bach]

Can any Kallis the Mighty supporter please explain why his relatively poor record in England and SL doesnt demote him compared to other ATGs?

I can't recall an ATG who doesnt average at least 40 in England. Seems like a fairly important country to go missing in then.

I asked this in the Kallis vs Waugh thread and didnt get a real response.

Possibly he didn't like the English meat pies so much, so was a little unsettled.