What is your ranking of all Country's ATG XIs?

[Coronis]

How do you look at that front 5 batting lineup and make any kind of comparison to the other teams' batting lineups full of modern era players? We can just assume that Hobbs and some of these others are goated, as a simple analysis of averages in their era would indicate. But even aside from an accusation that it's cheating to include a bunch of blokes with nice averages that none of us have ever seen, or only seen the most minimal of footage retrospectively. We honestly don't know how any of these guys would fare against a modern fast bowling technique, not perfected till the 70s and 80s by the WI, and then subsequently adapted by all modern era pace attacks to this day. In my opinion this is a huge asterisk on this batting lineup, which otherwise would be the best outside of the Bradman led Australia, by a simple analysis.

You have no problem with Bradman in the Aussie side, or any other pre 70’s players in other XI’s? We don’t exactly know how these guys would perform against a modern attack, nor how modern players would perform against guys like Barnes, O’Reilly, Faulkner etc. Isn’t one of the funnest parts of these ATG discussions, putting modern and past players together and hypothesising about these unknowns?

Anyway, England have never really had world leading ATG batsmen since Barrington (with the recent exception of Root), which itself is quite sad, so why you would replace any of those undisputed greats with one of them in this context is beyond me.

 

[BazBall21]

RSA and Eng the toughest to split. NZ probably closer to SL than they are to India IMO.

Australia
West Indies
South Africa
England
Pakistan
India
New Zealand
Sri Lanka
Zimbabwe
Bangladesh

Spot on

 

[shortpitched713]

You have no problem with Bradman in the Aussie side, or any other pre 70’s players in other XI’s? We don’t exactly know how these guys would perform against a modern attack, nor how modern players would perform against guys like Barnes, O’Reilly, Faulkner etc. Isn’t one of the funnest parts of these ATG discussions, putting modern and past players together and hypothesising about these unknowns?

Anyway, England have never really had world leading ATG batsmen since Barrington (with the recent exception of Root), which itself is quite sad, so why you would replace any of those undisputed greats with one of them in this context is beyond me.

Well, to be honest the same thing applies to Bradman as any of the other batsmen, the only difference being that Bradman's standard of excellence is on another planet compared to the English 5, statistically speaking.

And personally, I think it would be interesting to see how much of a difference in quality it would be to the England lineup it would be if you had to choose a 5 from let's say post 1969, or even something a bit more representative of cricket throughout the ages, because honestly that's a huge disparity between England and other teams in this matter, and surely there is such a thing as modern great English specialist bastman, no?

 

[Line and Length]

How do you look at that front 5 batting lineup and make any kind of comparison to the other teams' batting lineups full of modern era players? We can just assume that Hobbs and some of these others are goated, as a simple analysis of averages in their era would indicate. But even aside from an accusation that it's cheating to include a bunch of blokes with nice averages that none of us have ever seen, or only seen the most minimal of footage retrospectively. We honestly don't know how any of these guys would fare against a modern fast bowling technique, not perfected till the 70s and 80s by the WI, and then subsequently adapted by all modern era pace attacks to this day. In my opinion this is a huge asterisk on this batting lineup, which otherwise would be the best outside of the Bradman led Australia, by a simple analysis.

While I often show my age, you are revealing your youth. I have had the pleasure of watching both Hutton and Barrington and readily rank them as ATGs. Your suggestion to have a starting point of 1969 is, quite frankly, ridiculous. How did you come up with that date? Why not 1972 so we are looking at the last 50 years if you want to focus on 'modern' players.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Australia is the strongest... In paper.

Deal with the reality,

W. G = Bradman + Quality Bowler
Ranji = Lara
Lohmann > Akram/Hadlee/Marshall
Barnes = bowling equivalent of Bradman

Besides, there will be Laker's test, Botham's Ashes.. Etc

WG - Hutton
Hobbs, Ranji, Hammond, Compton
Knott
Lohmann, Laker, Barnes, Trueman

12th man - Botham.

 

[TheJediBrah]

W. G = Bradman + Anderson

 

[ataraxia]

wait, did you just call Anderson a quality bowler?

 

[TheJediBrah]

wait, did you just call Anderson a quality bowler?

sneaky PKF edited his post

but surely Anderson has WG Grace covered as a bowler

 

[Gob]

Why Is he wearing pants way over his waist?

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why Is he wearing pants way over his waist?

He's not anymore

 

[bagapath]

Australia is the strongest... In paper.

Deal with the reality,

W. G = Bradman + Quality Bowler
Ranji = Lara
Lohmann > Akram/Hadlee/Marshall
Barnes = bowling equivalent of Bradman

Besides, there will be Laker's test, Botham's Ashes.. Etc

WG - Hutton
Hobbs, Ranji, Hammond, Compton
Knott
Lohmann, Laker, Barnes, Trueman

12th man - Botham.

why is hobbs batting at 3?
the thing with these ATG XIs is such cheat moves are not allowed. If it is difficult to choose two out of the three great openers, for example, then that is the fun part. you can't choose all three and randomly force fit one of them at no 3

 

[Red]

My fave XI is SA. They’d rattle teams

Smith
Richards
Kallis
G.Pollock
Nourse
DeVillers
Faulkner
S.Pollock
Procter
Tayfield
Donald

 

[subshakerz]

My fave XI is SA. They’d rattle teams

Smith
Richards
Kallis
G.Pollock
Nourse
DeVillers
Faulkner
S.Pollock
Procter
Tayfield
Donald

Keeping ABD as keeper opens up so many options.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

why is hobbs batting at 3?
the thing with these ATG XIs is such cheat moves are not allowed. If it is difficult to choose two out of the three great openers, for example, then that is the fun part. you can't choose all three and randomly force fit one of them at no 3

Hutton can bat 3

 

[Fuller Pilch]

My fave XI is SA. They’d rattle teams

Smith
Richards
Kallis
G.Pollock
Nourse
DeVillers
Faulkner
S.Pollock
Procter
Tayfield
Donald

No Steyn? Need to drop one of Faulkner, S Pollock, and Procter (I'd replace Procter personally).

 

[Coronis]

Well, to be honest the same thing applies to Bradman as any of the other batsmen, the only difference being that Bradman's standard of excellence is on another planet compared to the English 5, statistically speaking.

And personally, I think it would be interesting to see how much of a difference in quality it would be to the England lineup it would be if you had to choose a 5 from let's say post 1969, or even something a bit more representative of cricket throughout the ages, because honestly that's a huge disparity between England and other teams in this matter, and surely there is such a thing as modern great English specialist bastman, no?

How is restricting the timeframe for one particular XI more representative of cricket through the ages?

My fave XI is SA. They’d rattle teams

Smith
Richards
Kallis
G.Pollock
Nourse
DeVillers
Faulkner
S.Pollock
Procter
Tayfield
Donald

Procter should definitely bat above Pollock.

 

[TheJediBrah]

why is hobbs batting at 3?
the thing with these ATG XIs is such cheat moves are not allowed. If it is difficult to choose two out of the three great openers, for example, then that is the fun part. you can't choose all three and randomly force fit one of them at no 3

I disagree. You can bat Bradman at 5, or opening if that's what you want.

If your 3 best bats are openers then pick them all and bat one at 3.

 

[Jfry]

I disagree. You can bat Bradman at 5, or opening if that's what you want.

If your 3 best bats are openers then pick them all and bat one at 3.

Then Australia:

Ponting
Waugh
Bradman
Smith
Border
Miller
etc

and WI

Weekes
Worrell
Headley
Lara
Richards
Sobers
Walcott

Can have truly absurd batting lineups

 

[TheJediBrah]

Then Australia:

Ponting
Waugh
Bradman
Smith
Border
Miller
etc

and WI

Weekes
Worrell
Headley
Lara
Richards
Sobers
Walcott

Can have truly absurd batting lineups

Well it's debatable if they would be the strongest lineups. But if they were, then it's perfectly reasonable

Players get picked to play for their country out of position quite often, it's not "absurd" for Neil McKenzie to get picked to open for SA if it's the best thing for the team. If Ponting and Waugh opening makes the strongest Aus ATG XI then that's the right call. But that's a very big if. Hard to argue that they would be better openers than players that did it for whole careers but if you think they would be then go for it.