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Adjusting the batting average based on actual quality

weeman27bob

weeman27bob

International Vice-Captain
thakzz said:
Batsman average what he average, how it change?

We can not just say "he should average more"...if he should, then he should have played better. Best players have best average, simple.
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But what about players whose averages are distorted by not outs? :ph34r:
 
thakzz

thakzz

Cricket Spectator
weeman27bob said:
But what about players whose averages are distorted by not outs? :ph34r:
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A mainstream batsman, lets say batting in the top 5 will not have so many not outs that his average will sky rocket, and if there are such not outs and they are of a considerable sum (e.g. not outs of 50 or 100 plus runs) then all credit to the batsman for that. Remaining not out is an art of batting.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
thakzz said:
Batsman average what he average, how it change?

We can not just say "he should average more"...if he should, then he should have played better. Bets players have best average, simple.
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So Mohd Yousuf is better than Allan Border, Steve Waugh and Ponting?
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
You can adjust batting averages, but there ought to be as an objective of a criteria as possible. Things like Era-adjusted, or home-away / country adjusted can be rather insightful. When you start just using the "eye-test" to adjust averages might as well just say "I think he's better because I like him more", which is more honest and accurate than saying one's musings have anything to do with average.
 
Victor Ian

Victor Ian

International Coach
But who I like is objectively better that others.

Allan Border should have averaged more. Through the 80's he had to shepherd his team of **** ***** from ball 1. Was never allowed to ease into an innings when he felt a bit dodgy early or take some time giving the strike to the other guy when he was getting worked over.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
shortpitched713 said:
You can adjust batting averages, but there ought to be as an objective of a criteria as possible. Things like Era-adjusted, or home-away / country adjusted can be rather insightful. When you start just using the "eye-test" to adjust averages might as well just say "I think he's better because I like him more", which is more honest and accurate than saying one's musings have anything to do with average.
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One of the biggest factors is quality of opposition. Some teams play a significantly higher proportion of their games against weaker teams, for one reason or another.

Extreme example of this would be Ryan ten Doeschate's ODI average, achieved playing almost entirely non Test-playing nations. Same thing but to a slightly lesser extent happens in Tests, if you have a look at how many Tests Zimbabwe and Bangladesh played against each country in the 00s
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
TheJediBrah said:
One of the biggest factors is quality of opposition. Some teams play a significantly higher proportion of their games against weaker teams, for one reason or another.

Extreme example of this would be Ryan ten Doeschate's ODI average, achieved playing almost entirely non Test-playing nations. Same thing but to a slightly lesser extent happens in Tests, if you have a look at how many Tests Zimbabwe and Bangladesh played against each country in the 00s
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Yup, that's certainly an objective analysis. For example if you weighted each country faced to have equal weighting between all players being compared.

What's silly is when a batsman happens to be from country X so people are just like "add/subtract some points from his average" .
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
subshakerz said:
So Mohd Yousuf is better than Allan Border, Steve Waugh and Ponting?
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So for me, he's not better than Ponting, who I saw extensively as his contemporary. And probably not Border either, who was pretty darn consistent throughout his career.

But why couldn't he be better than Waugh? Waugh only averaged 36 from 1985 - 1992, and I think he was used as something of a middling quality allrounder at this time. Sure his batting performance from 93 onward was definitely all-time great, but then we can argue Mohammad Yousuf's peak was greater than anything Waugh produced as well. We'd get into arguments on peaks/duration/longevity, which ultimately are subjective, but anyway, there's grounds for the argument for mine.
 
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S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
shortpitched713 said:
So for me, he's not better than Ponting, who I saw extensively as his contemporary. And probably not Border either, who was pretty darn consistent throughout his career.

But why couldn't he be better than Waugh? Waugh only averaged 36 from 1985 - 1992, and I think he was used as something of a middling quality allrounder at this time. Sure his batting performance from 93 onward was definitely all-time great, but then we can argue Mohammad Yousuf's peak was greater than anything Waugh produced as well. We'd get into arguments on peaks/duration/longevity, which ultimately are subjective, but anyway, there's grounds for the argument for mine.
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As someone would watch both their careers, I am shocked someone would compare Yousuf with Waugh. Yousuf's peak was almost entirely a product of the flattest pitches in a generation. Waugh's peak was against the 2Ws, Ambrose, Walsh, Pollock and Donald at their peak.
 
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