*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[_Ed_]

Obituary: Don Neely

From a player and captain to NZC selector, president, and life member; from a youngster with a love of the game to prominent historian and author – Don Neely certainly lived his cricketing life to its fullest

www.nzc.nz

 

[jcas0167]

Obituary: Don Neely

From a player and captain to NZC selector, president, and life member; from a youngster with a love of the game to prominent historian and author – Don Neely certainly lived his cricketing life to its fullest

www.nzc.nz

Sad news indeed. Incredible servant of the game. Player, selector, author, administrator. Incredible.

Don Neely has passed away

Don Neely has passed away at 86. A great man of NZ cricket.

www.cricketweb.net

 

[_Ed_]

Whoops, sorry, didn't see that thread.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Good to see that Rachin has got his 1st class average over 40 with that double century.

 

[Ghost]

Tim Pringle made his ODI/List A debut for the Netherlands overnight.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Tim Pringle made his ODI/List A debut for the Netherlands overnight.

Got a 2nd ball duck but bowled Liam Livingstone. 8 overs, 1 for 51 is pretty decent for a 19 year-old against a side of huge hitters like England.

 

[Aritro]

The Kiwis love a grown up Harry Potter bowling left arm finger spin

 

[Prince EWS]

Got a 2nd ball duck but bowled Liam Livingstone. 8 overs, 1 for 51 is pretty decent for a 19 year-old against a side of huge hitters like England.

It was a total jaf to get Livingstone too.

 

[NZTailender]

The Eng series ODI squad announcement has got me thinking about our best ODI side we can field. It seems like we've played a grand total of 10 matches since the 2019 WC, and Kane Williamson has featured in 2 of those, with Tim Southee also 2, Boult 4, and Ferguson 1! Such is Williamsons lack of game time that we have a bit of a headache as both Conway and Young have filled in at 3 with exceptional results. Taylor's leaving means the 4 slot is opened up but Latham's kind of cemented at 5, and neither Young nor Conway would be useful at 6 (actually I could see Conway as a late order blaster/finisher but it'd be a waste).

No specialist batsman really deserves to be dropped on form - everyone bar Kane has averaged 40+ in that period. The 'replacements' in Conway and Young feel well established to the Black Caps side as a whole and seems a bit harsh to leave either of them out...unless Kane decides to give ODIs (I don't think he will, something tells me he wants to get the cup in '23 as captain and then return to specialist batting). Similarly, de Grandhomme hasn't disgraced himself in this interim, averaging 30 with the ball but 21 with the bat, mostly @ 7. Mitchell scored a superb 100 @ 6, so as much as there's a conundrum at the top order, so there is as well 6-8 between Mitchell, CdG and Santner. Certain players have been either injured our rested so it's really hard to see who our incumbents are besides Latham, Nicholls and Guptill, who were the only players to play all matches in this period. Southee hasn't played a game since 2020, and neither has Ferguson. Considering Ferguson was our leading wicket taker at the World Cup, if he's fit surely he plays. Southee's record in ODIs has been poo for some years, so maybe they'll keep him from the squad moving forward. Considering in the same period Jamieson, Tickner, Henry and even Doug Bracewell has stepped up (albeit vs the Dutch), it seems silly for him to continue when his returns haven't been stellar at all.

A few bad games this tour from Nicholls and I guess they'd move one of Young or Conway in to the opening slot. He's done fine in the role so far but given his Test form I guess they could see any failures stack up and relieve him of a spot. Guptill seems to have the air of "there till 23".

I'm not sure what the side will be - and I'm guessing the Europe tour, Pakistan and then the home summer will be a period where they sort out the strongest XI and extended XV.

I'd hazard a guess the side would look something like this, based entirely on the make up of ODIs in that period, assuming everyone is fully fit
1. Guptill
2. Nicholls
3. Williamson
4. Conway
5. Latham+
6. Mitchell (6)
7. de Grandhomme (3)
8. Santner (4)
9. Ferguson (2)
10. Sodhi (5) or Henry
11. Boult (1)

We're not in such a bad space since there actually seems to be plenty of quality players, just not enough slots.

 

[jcas0167]

I'd be tempted to open with Conway, move Mitchell to 4 and have Neesham at 6.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

A strongest ODI XI in NZ conditions is very different to what it would be in India.

 

[thundaboult]

Get nicholls outta there and move in young

 

[Moss]

With the India WC in mind this is what I’d go with (Stead and Larsen would no doubt disaagree):

First XI:
Allen, Conway, Williamson, Young, Latham (wk), Mitchell, Phillips, Santner, Rippon, Boult, Ferguson
Reserves:
Neesham, Ajaz, Henry, Cleaver

Would like for Guptill to be in the frame but he’s never been much of a factor in the subcontinent. No doubt Southee will make it. Milne too, but can you rely on him to get through a full tournament? Sodhi has been in decline for a while too, hope they’re prepared to look beyond him.

 

[NZTailender]

With the India WC in mind this is what I’d go with (Stead and Larsen would no doubt disaagree):

First XI:
Allen, Conway, Williamson, Young, Latham (wk), Mitchell, Phillips, Santner, Rippon, Boult, Ferguson
Reserves:
Neesham, Ajaz, Henry, Cleaver

Would like for Guptill to be in the frame but he’s never been much of a factor in the subcontinent. No doubt Southee will make it. Milne too, but can you rely on him to get through a full tournament? Sodhi has been in decline for a while too, hope they’re prepared to look beyond him.

I get the feeling they're committed to Guptill playing in the 2023 WC. Unless he has a massive, massive nosedive in form. Ditto Nicholls - they're a conservative bunch.

I think your side is pretty close to what I'd like to see, although I'd have Sodhi ahead of Ripppon, though maybe Rippon could be competing for Santner's spot, as his 6 wickets @ 38 since the WC is hardly stellar. Not sure what you mean by Sodhi in decline tbh. You could argue Santner's a containment/pressure bowler but his econ rate is only .14 runs lower than Sodhi in this period - thouugh it's much easier for bowlers to go after Sodhi than Santner I guess.

As much as we pile on Henry in the Test arena, he averages 25 with the ball, and averaged 15 in the last 2 years (albeit small sample size).

Guptill does seem to have a little bit left in the tank, if the home season is anything to go by. I don't think it's unreasonable for him to play in the next WC but I'd wager he'd retire after.

Assuming everyone in good form, my WC side and squad would be:
1. Guptill
2. Conway
3. Williamson*
4. Young
5. Latham+
6. Mitchell
7. Neesham
8. Santner
9. Sodhi
10. Ferguson
11. Boult

12. Cleaver+ (backup specialist bat and keeper)
13. Henry (swaps for Sodhi pitch depending)
14. Phillips (swaps for Neesham or Mitchell, pitch depending)
15. Tickner (Swaps for fitness/tournament form)

"Going forward", post WC I'd like to start seeing sides more like:

1. Conway
2. Young
3. Williamson
4. Mitchell (7)
5. Latham+
6. Phillips (6)
7. Neesham (4)
8. Smith (3)
9. Sodhi (5)
10. Ferguson (1)
11. Tickner (2)

or

1. Conway
2. Young
3. Williamson
4. Mitchell (7)
5. Latham+
6. Phillips (6)
7. Neesham (4)
8. Smith (3)
9. Santner (5)
10. Henry (1)
11. Ferguson (2)

or

1. Conway
2. Allen
3. Williamson
4. Young
5. Mitchell (6)
6. Cleaver+
7. Rippon (5)
8. Santner (3)
9. Sodhi (4)
10. Ferguson (1)
11. Tickner (2)

A batting pool of:
Conway
Allen
Young
Williamson
Latham
Mitchell
Cleaver
Nicholls
Chapman
O'Donnell/One of the Carters

All-rounder pool of:
Neesham
Phillips
Rippon
M Bracewell
Ravindra
Smith
Solia

Pace pool of:
Ferguson
Tickner
Henry
Duffy
Sears

Spin pool of:
Santner
Sodhi
Ashok
Pringle

 

[nzfan]

Of late I'm not feeling the vibe with the black caps side. There's been lot of illogical moves made. I'm hoping with the latest injection of some youth in the white ball squads we will hopefully stand a better stead going forward. Would have like to see Sears in both t20 and the one day format. Maybe Nathan Smith and Ravindra fitted in one of the one day squad. No doubt both Smith and Ravindra will play for a very long time but the WC is only a year away. In a year's time I think the team will change quite a bit.

 

[NZTailender]

Head coach Gary Stead will take a short break with Shane Jurgensen leading the coaching staff for the Ireland leg of the tour with Luke Ronchi and former England international Luke Wright. Jurgensen and Ronchi will then fly home, with Stead returning as head coach to be joined by Graeme Aldridge (bowling), Dean Brownlie (batting) and Wright (fourth coach) for the Scotland, Netherlands and West Indies series.

I like Dean Brownlie but good god, it's hardly a coaching setup that screams excitement. Where did Luke Wright come from??

 

[Flem274*]

So many very recent ex-players have trundled through the camp, often ones who played with the current side briefly before being dropped.

Screams jobs for the boys. How can these guys be expected to give KW or Latham tips when they spent their careers trying and failing to surpass those guys?

Meanwhile we've lost lauded coaches like Fleming and Bond to teams who don't matter.

 

[SteveNZ]

I know fans from other countries think we're a sooky, cynical bunch (and we probably are) but agreed, 2 years and 1 year on from a World Cup final tie and a WTC (plus a T20 World final) there's cracks aplenty.

I agree with Moss' ODI XI too. I've been a fan of Gup but in a World Cup in India, don't we know what we're getting? Much rather see Allen and Conway at the top. I wouldn't have Rippon, but otherwise I like his side.

 

[Bahnz]

My biggest concern with Guptill is not so much his record in India but age and lack of match practice (he hasn't had a real test of his ODI skills since India toured in 2020!). Otherwise would definitely opt for him over a raw as guts Allen, and I think Conway is ideally placed to take over Ross' spot at 4. Having said that, I could be tempted to shuffle Conway up to open and take advantage of Latham's silky sweeps at 4 in the batting order.

 

[nzfan]

So many very recent ex-players have trundled through the camp, often ones who played with the current side briefly before being dropped.

Screams jobs for the boys. How can these guys be expected to give KW or Latham tips when they spent their careers trying and failing to surpass those guys?

Meanwhile we've lost lauded coaches like Fleming and Bond to teams who don't matter.

Kane or Latham don't ask for tips, They will use him as a bloke for throw downs. Don't think Kane uses any one for tips. He knows his game too well and if things go a bit awry he goes back to his original coaches from Tauranga. That is usually the case for most players at that level.