What is the general consensus on Makhaya Ntini's controversial history

[StephenZA]

Same happened publicly with the Metoo scandal against Aziz Ansari. The woman regretted it, so he lost most of his career.

Neither of those things are true... so i`m unsure if you are just trying to be sarcastic or serious.

 

[vicleggie]

Neither of those things are true... so i`m unsure if you are just trying to be sarcastic or serious.

Excuse me?
She wrote in her article that she felt bad afterwards, not that she didn't consent before.

He was the biggest comedian in America and doing a lot of movies, now he is barely present in mainstream Hollywood.

 

[Shady Slim]

Same happened publicly with the Metoo scandal against Aziz Ansari. The woman regretted it, so he lost most of his career.

this is exactly what im talking about ahahahah

there's people out there with a pernicious devotion to finding and relitigating every single notable case in which a complaint resulted in anything other than a unanimous jury conviction which sews the fields of suspicion against complainants and engenders an environment where it's that little bit tougher for people to speak up

 

[Shady Slim]

He was the biggest comedian in America

 

[StephenZA]

Excuse me?
She wrote in her article that she felt bad afterwards, not that she didn't consent before.

He was the biggest comedian in America and doing a lot of movies, now he is barely present in mainstream Hollywood.

I misunderstood what you meant by regretted 'it'... i.e. I thought you where talking about her coming out about it. Not the act itself. And secondly he most definitely has not lost his career. Not even close. And he himself regrets what happened. And goes back to the original point of understanding consent.

 

[TheJediBrah]

nobody's suggesting that neither of these aren't true, nor that these aren't problems.

but all youve got to see is the tidal wave of abuse directed at complainants and closing of the ranks around the alleged offender when literally any famous man is accused of a misdeed against a woman, be they a sportsman or an actor or a musician or a politician, to see that a not insignificant portion of our society are set to "she's faking it" as default. it ranges from verballing to death threats and it's clearly a huge thing

I'm sure that's true, you also have men lose their careers and livelihoods (or college enrolments) because of baseless accusations while the complainants identities are protected which clearly shows that a significant portion of our society is set to the opposite.

If I'm reading you right, your concern is that these "narratives" will swing more people to your proposed side of thinking ("she's faking it"), and that you believe this will lead to more injustice than justice in the long run? I've always tended to lean the other way, given how much courts seem to favour women in general (criminal sentencing, divorce, custody etc). I've had a few friends get divorced and the things they have to do (and pay) seem insane, and definitely not fair.

I always keep an open mind though, hearing the views of someone with more direct experience is valuable. To be honest I've never really been aware of complainants being abused by fans of famous men, definitely didn't know it was commonplace.

 

[vicleggie]

View attachment 31903

 

[mr_mister]

View attachment 31903

Hey I'm taller than this bloke. Stupid beta! Hehe feels good

 

[TheJediBrah]

Hey I'm taller than this bloke. Stupid beta! Hehe feels good

This is a great post if unironic

 

[TheJediBrah]

View attachment 31904

If I saw those 2 together I'd assume she was being held hostage tbf

 

[StephenZA]

I'm sure that's true, you also have men lose their careers and livelihoods (or college enrolments) because of baseless accusations while the complainants identities are protected which clearly shows that a significant portion of our society is set to the opposite.

If I'm reading you right, your concern is that these "narratives" will swing more people to your proposed side of thinking ("she's faking it"), and that you believe this will lead to more injustice than justice in the long run? I've always tended to lean the other way, given how much courts seem to favour women in general (criminal sentencing, divorce, custody etc). I've had a few friends get divorced and the things they have to do (and pay) seem insane, and definitely not fair.

I always keep an open mind though, hearing the views of someone with more direct experience is valuable. To be honest I've never really been aware of complainants being abused by fans of famous men, definitely didn't know it was commonplace.

I think that the problem of the narrative your are portraying is that it is largely false. But it is being deliberately made more prominent to try counter the correct narrative that firstly, campuses are terrible places for young girls because of how young men treat and prey on them. And secondly that in larger society women have to deal with constant harassment and misogynistic attitudes on a daily basis, because it is just accepted to be a part of life. Most people don't want to hear that...

 

[mr_mister]

This is a great post if unironic

Haha, it's 50-50. I've been told my sense of humour is ironic irony or "intentionally cringe"

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think that the problem of the narrative your are portraying is that it is largely false. But it is being deliberately made more prominent to try counter the correct narrative that firstly, campuses are terrible places for young girls because of how young men treat and prey on them. And secondly that in larger society women have to deal with constant harassment and misogynistic attitudes on a daily basis, because it is just accepted to be a part of life. Most people don't want to hear that...

I'm not intending to portray the narrative you think I am

I do however think it's important to keep an open mind, and not assume someone is guilty or not-guilty based on things like gender or fame. And no one deserves to be treated as guilty, or lose their livelihood, based purely on an accusation.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Haha, it's 50-50. I've been told my sense of humour is ironic irony or "intentionally cringe"

Short men need to know where they stand


(very close to the ground)

 

[Shady Slim]

I'm sure that's true, you also have men lose their careers and livelihoods (or college enrolments) because of baseless accusations while the complainants identities are protected which clearly shows that a significant portion of our society is set to the opposite.

the problem is this is all very

nobody at any point has denied that sometimes people of both ***es falsify accusations of abuse or of ***ual assault. the fact that whenever however discussions about ***ual assault some people (see vicleggie) are inclined to randomly bring up isolated incidents of false complaints where nobody has such a thing doesn't happen however suggests there's something greater at play here. sza nailed the sort of thinking that the ad hoc falsehood conversation is geared towards the pushing of.

fwiw in the realm of ***ual assault the courts are in noooooooooooo way tilted towards complainants whatsoever, so far from the case. judges, jurors, and even many defense lawyers, still approach the task with "if she is promiscuous or dressed sultryly or drunk or consented to some acts then she must have wanted it", and you have basically as a default the entire ***ual history of complainants scrutinized when theyre on the stand while face to face with the person who assaulted them

 

[sledger]

courts are absolutely not biased towards complainants

they are usually biased towards the defendant, if anything

usually ends up with the complainant themselves effectively on trial, absolutely dire stuff

 

[Shady Slim]

courts are absolutely not biased towards complainants

they are usually biased towards the defendant, if anything

usually ends up with the complainant themselves effectively on trial, absolutely dire stuff

typical of you to uncritically parrot shady slim talking points

 

[TheJediBrah]

courts are absolutely not biased towards complainants

they are usually biased towards the defendant, if anything

usually ends up with the complainant themselves effectively on trial, absolutely dire stuff

Not what I said was it? I said biased towards women. Unless I've been severely misinformed females tend to get less harsh sentences for the same crimes as men and are heavily favoured in divorce and child custody hearings.

But noted

 

[mr_mister]

You'd make a good lawyer Jedi

 

[Starfighter]

I sense a disaster impending in this thread.

Right again.