ImpatientLime
International Regular
foakes is toast
billings the new keeper cause he was heard shouting a bit over stump mic in sydney
billings the new keeper cause he was heard shouting a bit over stump mic in sydney
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England players and selection discussion thread
- Thread starter Bijed
- Start date
Uppercut
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He actually tried it but stopped because it was too boring. https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/ben-stokes-training-interview
tooextracool
International Coach
Provided Stokes was truly up for it, I don't see how anyone can say that it was the wrong choice. No one else in English cricket has the respect of the players more than Stokes. If anything, I expect his bowling workload to be better managed now that he is in control than if we bring someone with 10 tests under their belt running the show.
No one is expecting him to be a tactical genius. Assuming Broad and Anderson are back, we have a senior core of bowlers who can set their own fields and we will need a coach who can help guide him from that perspective as it relates to the younger players. For any bowler, just knowing that you have the full backing of your captain is going to be a sea change from his predecessor, and I expect we will play with far more aggression generally than we did previously.
No one is expecting him to be a tactical genius. Assuming Broad and Anderson are back, we have a senior core of bowlers who can set their own fields and we will need a coach who can help guide him from that perspective as it relates to the younger players. For any bowler, just knowing that you have the full backing of your captain is going to be a sea change from his predecessor, and I expect we will play with far more aggression generally than we did previously.
It's such a mess...Jimmy and broad were dropped after years of not doing enough away to win tests, now that there's a new captain they seem to be automatic selections back in. What happens to Mahmood who is being invested in and performing better for Lancs than Jimmy is right now? Jimmy gets back into the side simply because he whinged the louded? Broad hasnt even played since January.
Stokes should have been looking to rebuild, not go back, even if it meant a couple years of uncertainty. A fine example is Misbah taking over after the spot fixing debacle for Pakistan, pushing Azhar Ali who had the time was in and out of the side, stabilising YK who was still young enough and great enough and then breathing new life into the bowling post Amir, Asif and then Ajmal.
I'm not sure what 2 more seasons of pick and choose Jimmy and Broad will do, and once Archer is fit and ready to go, does England really go back to Jimmy/Broad/Archer/Woakes?
Stokes needs more balls as captain...kind of like when he's outside a night club.
Red_Ink_Squid
Global Moderator
England can't keep going back to them for much longer. But who is the next generation to hand over to? Archer/Wood/Robinson/Stone are all injured. Maybe if they were available the decision would be harder but England have to pick some bowlers and overlooking Broad and Anderson in the last series led to Matt Fisher (also now injured) playing when clearly he's not at Test level (let's be kind and say 'yet').
Anderson and Broad are easily in the best available team on merit. Woakes (
) and Overton are not as good bowlers. Mahmood is a lock for the squad and I expect he'll play some Tests this summer too. He'll be fine.tooextracool
International Coach
Not sure why Matt Fisher has a bad rep on this board - I thought he had a decent outing for a debutant bowling on a road though i do agree that he needs a bit more time to develop before playing more test cricket. Seems to have a repeatable action that should allow him to generate some natural in-swing.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
As a Kiwi I see England as a greater challenge with Branderson at home. Rotate the old pair in different tests to open with Mahmoud with a third seamer who can bat a bit at 8 (Robinson/Overtons/Woakes/Sam Curran/someone else etc.) and give Parkinson a debut (NZ always struggle against leg spin.
That would be a very good attack with Stokes and Root (and perhaps Lawrence).
Perhaps "encourage" the old bowling pair to retire vs South Africa or India so fans can say goodbye.
That would be a very good attack with Stokes and Root (and perhaps Lawrence).
Perhaps "encourage" the old bowling pair to retire vs South Africa or India so fans can say goodbye.
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Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Trouble is said repeatable action seems to give him not just the usual back issues but every other conceivable injury and a few inconceivable ones. Makes Chris Old seem durable. I disagree with @Red_Ink_Squid's implication he'll never be test level (though he'll never be as fast as he might have been) but when the most matches he's played in a season is five it's very long way to fulfil what potential remains.
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
Fisher is another victim of Root’s nitwit captaincy. When we were trying to bowl the Windies out on the last day he was given two overs while there was about 45 overs of non penetrating spin. He wouldn’t have bowled them out but he should have been given a proper spell.
ImpatientLime
International Regular
Archer still being talked about as a realistic test option is funny.
You expect too much....if he isn't "rotated" I'll eat my socks.England can't keep going back to them for much longer. But who is the next generation to hand over to? Archer/Wood/Robinson/Stone are all injured. Maybe if they were available the decision would be harder but England have to pick some bowlers and overlooking Broad and Anderson in the last series led to Matt Fisher (also now injured) playing when clearly he's not at Test level (let's be kind and say 'yet').
Anderson and Broad are easily in the best available team on merit. Woakes (
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Broad and Anderson did not fail to win us Tests away, our batting did. They were dropped for no reason, so thankfully they are being brought back for a reason. i.e. they are our best bowlers, and not injured like most of our other bowlers. Our bowling not the problem again, our batting is. Work on that. Shouldn't even be a question, was the wrong move, proven so.
Anyway Brook is off to an incredible start this season, can see them giving him a shot.
Oh and I think now we’ve had Woakes, Foakes, Stokes. I am going to be pushing for Hain, Raine, Crane, hey maybe Payne too but he's a long shot admittely, shame Haines as an errant "s".
Anyway Brook is off to an incredible start this season, can see them giving him a shot.
Oh and I think now we’ve had Woakes, Foakes, Stokes. I am going to be pushing for Hain, Raine, Crane, hey maybe Payne too but he's a long shot admittely, shame Haines as an errant "s".
Blenkinsop
U19 Captain
We are already in uncharted territory with Anderson. He's pushing 40, still obviously England's best bowler, still one of England's fittest players and still a good fielder. For all anyone knows he might have another five years in him, partly because he seems to be some sort of genetic freak and partly because we know a lot more about how to stay fit nowadays than we did in the 1980s. He certainly looks less likely to break down than Robinson or Fisher.
Nice to see lots of English batsmen doing well in the CC so far. Brook looks quality and can't be far away from a call-up. Same with Bohannon.
Nice to see lots of English batsmen doing well in the CC so far. Brook looks quality and can't be far away from a call-up. Same with Bohannon.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah this is the point, if you weren't obsessively looking at his birth-certificate, like a tabloid journo waiting for a starlet to come of age, there would be absolutely no reason to drop him, he would be one of the only certain names on the team sheet. Root, Stokes, Anderson, and he plays more than Stokes because of superior fitness.
Broad has shown some signs he might not be the player he was, and Robinson is a similar style bowler and maybe better ATM, but again Broad is actually fitter than him, despite the years in difference. Wood/Stone/Archer/Fisher just so injury-prone, hard to talk about them in any serious way for the future.
I don't get it, if England can't consistently take 20 wickets away from home without a lot of help then surely the bowling actually is a problem? It was absolutely a question to ask considering how Anderson and Broad function away from home. Them coming back at home doesn't change this.
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Agreed. Anderson and Broad have had terrible WPMs away from home in the last few years in an extremely bowler friendly era.
The bowling isn’t as big a problem as the batting but it’s still a big problem.
Flem274*
123/5
Anderson and Broad have been pretty good away recently.
Most importantly, they've easily outplayed all rivals for their places bar Robinson and maybe Wood. You can make a good argument for including Wood or maybe a fit Archer or Stone ahead of one of the medium fast trio but England stupidly broke up one of the few things working well.
Most importantly, they've easily outplayed all rivals for their places bar Robinson and maybe Wood. You can make a good argument for including Wood or maybe a fit Archer or Stone ahead of one of the medium fast trio but England stupidly broke up one of the few things working well.
Define recently, because only Anderson has had a decent average of the two, and both have terrible strike rates for pacers without the help of seaming conditions. Even from the start of the 2015 cricket season their tallies away from home are (including the UAE series vs Pakistan):
Anderson 108 wickets at 24/63 in 33 Tests (3.27 WPM)
Broad 105 wickets at 28/67 in 36 Tests (2.92 WPM)
Since the start of 2018:
Anderson 51 wickets at 22/62 in 17 Tests (3 WPM)
Broad 50 wickets at 28/66 in 18 Tests (2.78 WPM)
This, along with the general lack of other surrounding options (through injuries and little faith) that can take wickets while these two hold up an end is a big problem for England's bowling away from home. So it confuses me when people do act like the two haven't been a problem for England away from home.
Anderson 108 wickets at 24/63 in 33 Tests (3.27 WPM)
Broad 105 wickets at 28/67 in 36 Tests (2.92 WPM)
Since the start of 2018:
Anderson 51 wickets at 22/62 in 17 Tests (3 WPM)
Broad 50 wickets at 28/66 in 18 Tests (2.78 WPM)
This, along with the general lack of other surrounding options (through injuries and little faith) that can take wickets while these two hold up an end is a big problem for England's bowling away from home. So it confuses me when people do act like the two haven't been a problem for England away from home.