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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

PlayerComparisons

International Vice-Captain
1. Hobbs
2. Sutcliffe
3. Hutton
4. Hammond
5. Barrington
6. Root
7. Knott
8. Laker
9. Trueman
10. Barnes
11.

Who should the fourth bowler be? I think Hammond and Root can cover the fifth bowler role.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Ian Botham isn't a bits and pieces allrounder, with 14 centuries and 383 wickets. In his prime he can bat at 6 and take the new ball.
I fully agree, but do we look only at the prime, especially when it was relatively brief?

But no disrespect, he was a special player in his prime, though not necessarily against us.
 

kyear2

International Coach
1. Hobbs
2. Sutcliffe
3. Hutton
4. Hammond
5. Barrington
6. Root
7. Knott
8. Laker
9. Trueman
10. Barnes
11.

Who should the fourth bowler be? I think Hammond and Root can cover the fifth bowler role.
No offence, but I really wish people would stop disrespecting IMHO the best test opener of all times by pushing him out of position.

Plus, that top 5 would need timeless tests to win matches consistently
 

ataraxia

International Coach
Lohmann for fourth bowler.

As to the slow top 5, is it? Hobbs, Hutton, Hammond weren't known as slow scorers; they would be in the modern day but (a) we just for era and (b) who says they're playing in the modern day? Two slow scorers is pretty standard though (IMO) I'd like Ranji over Barrington or Root.

Honestly I think Hutton would be fine at 3, and Hobbs + Sutcliffe is worth it.
 

HookShot

U19 Vice-Captain
1. Hobbs
2. Sutcliffe
3. Hutton
4. Hammond
5. Barrington
6. Root
7. Knott
8. Laker
9. Trueman
10. Barnes
11.

Who should the fourth bowler be? I think Hammond and Root can cover the fifth bowler role.
Most great sides have a pair of fast bowlers leading the attack; so Anderson, Larwood or Snow to partner Trueman.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
I fully agree, but do we look only at the prime, especially when it was relatively brief?

But no disrespect, he was a special player in his prime, though not necessarily against us.
He was England’s greatest ever match winner with bat and ball over a long period. Even in the 86/87 Ashes win he set up both victories with a century and a 5-fer. He’s the sort of player you build an all time XI around, not a bits and pieces all rounder who should have been chucked down the order and shielded by Mike Gatting .
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Botham has to be in England's ATXI, there is just no way around it, esp since their other great bowlers all have something dodgy going about them.

Trueman - Bad away record
Anderson - Clouderson for a reason
Laker - Dodgy away record
Barnes - Who even knows
Larwood - Inconsistent
 

HookShot

U19 Vice-Captain
Botham has to be in England's ATXI, there is just no way around it, esp since their other great bowlers all have something dodgy going about them.

Trueman - Bad away record
Anderson - Clouderson for a reason
Laker - Dodgy away record
Barnes - Who even knows
Larwood - Inconsistent
Peak Botham when he bowled with real pace was an ATG bowler for sure, so….

01. Jack Hobbs
02. Len Hutton
03. Ken Barrington
04. Peter May *
05. Walter Hammond
06. Tony Greig
07. Ian Botham
08. Alan Knott +
09. John Snow
10. Fred Trueman
11. SF Barnes
12th. James Anderson

Barnes is the spinner on day 5.
Snow for the Away Tests and Anderson for the Home Tests
 
Last edited:

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Aus XI should have Chappell and Ponting open the innings

GChappell
Ponting
Bradman
Smith
SWaugh (6)
Border (5) (c)
Gilchrist (wk)
Warne (4)
Cummins (3)
Lillee (1)
McGrath (2)

Time to say goodbye to Miller from the XI imo. Impossible side to beat, this one.
Why on earth would you pick two blokes who never opened to play as openers in an all time XI? Insulting to actual openers IMO, to just assume anyone could slot in there.
 

ma1978

International Debutant
Dafuq - Ian Botham is the greatest postwar cricketer England has produced (treating Hutton as prewar) and its not that close. Can’t look at the final numbers. For a long time, he was the best all rounder in the world,akk the best bowler in the world and legit top order bat.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Why on earth would you pick two blokes who never opened to play as openers in an all time XI? Insulting to actual openers IMO, to just assume anyone could slot in there.
Yeah, not looking for agreement on this. I just think they would outperform Hayden and Simpson, and, more importantly, would prefer to see them bat. If not opening, then GChappell would replace SWaugh at 5 and Ponting would be out.
 

HookShot

U19 Vice-Captain
He was England’s greatest ever match winner with bat and ball over a long period. Even in the 86/87 Ashes win he set up both victories with a century and a 5-fer. He’s the sort of player you build an all time XI around, not a bits and pieces all rounder who should have been chucked down the order and shielded by Mike Gatting .
Here is Botham’s 1987 5fer against Australia….

 

HookShot

U19 Vice-Captain
It’s interesting to compare the bowling of Peak 1978 Botham Vs Past-It 1987 Botham.

Makes me feel kinda sad….

 

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