• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Australia and 4th Innings Defences

morgieb

Request Your Custom Title Now!
So some notorious Australia's 4th innings defences in recent years:

England v Australia 3rd Test 2019 - lost by 1 wicket defending 359
Australia v India 3rd Test 2020/21 - drew despite having 131 overs to bowl at (and India were arguably closer to victory than Australia were)
Australia v India 4th Test 2020/21 - lost by 3 wickets defending 328 on the last day
Australia v England 4th Test 2021/22 - drew with 102 overs to bowl at
Pakistan v Australia 2nd Test 2021/22 - drew with 172 overs to bowl at - which is the most overs survived in a 5 Day Test

That's 5 4th innings matches Australia have failed to win in the space of 20 Tests. That is a lot of failures in situations where you'd expect Australia to win. And I say the only real tough 4th innings wins Australia pulled off were these two Tests against England, and even then England took them quite a bit closer than what you'd think.

And other than this Test in 2018 I can't think of any situations where Australia survived with the boot on the other foot in a long time. Though admittedly they've had far fewer chances.

OK some of them were understandable. The Stokes match had choky elements but England had a lot of time and Stokes played an absolutely crazy knock. Surviving 105 overs isn't that difficult especially when the amount of rain and grass left on the wicket had it playing like a Day 3 pitch. And here you had an ATG knock from Azam on a flatty. But still I think bar maybe the Sydney Test pretty much every other decent side in the world would've won the Test from that position. To happen so often in such a short period of time is an absolute indictment on an otherwise excellent Australian attack.

So what gives? Does Australia just not like a Plan B? Is the lack of quality white ball domestic cricket hurting Australia under pressure? Are the pitches on which the situations happened too flat? Are the situations they put sides in allowing for miracle performances? Is it just main mental weakness? It's clearly not just a coincidence at this point though.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
So some notorious Australia's 4th innings defences in recent years:

England v Australia 3rd Test 2019 - lost by 1 wicket defending 359
Australia v India 3rd Test 2020/21 - drew despite having 131 overs to bowl at (and India were arguably closer to victory than Australia were)
Australia v India 4th Test 2020/21 - lost by 3 wickets defending 328 on the last day
Australia v England 4th Test 2021/22 - drew with 102 overs to bowl at
Pakistan v Australia 2nd Test 2021/22 - drew with 172 overs to bowl at - which is the most overs survived in a 5 Day Test

That's 5 4th innings matches Australia have failed to win in the space of 20 Tests. That is a lot of failures in situations where you'd expect Australia to win. And I say the only real tough 4th innings wins Australia pulled off were these two Tests against England, and even then England took them quite a bit closer than what you'd think.

And other than this Test in 2018 I can't think of any situations where Australia survived with the boot on the other foot in a long time. Though admittedly they've had far fewer chances.

OK some of them were understandable. The Stokes match had choky elements but England had a lot of time and Stokes played an absolutely crazy knock. Surviving 105 overs isn't that difficult especially when the amount of rain and grass left on the wicket had it playing like a Day 3 pitch. And here you had an ATG knock from Azam on a flatty. But still I think bar maybe the Sydney Test pretty much every other decent side in the world would've won the Test from that position. To happen so often in such a short period of time is an absolute indictment on an otherwise excellent Australian attack.

So what gives? Does Australia just not like a Plan B? Is the lack of quality white ball domestic cricket hurting Australia under pressure? Are the pitches on which the situations happened too flat? Are the situations they put sides in allowing for miracle performances? Is it just main mental weakness? It's clearly not just a coincidence at this point though.
It's the catching
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Not much of a trend there I don't think. The Stokes one was a freak in many ways, not least the of rub of the green. The 4th Ashes Test was a cake walk affected by the weather.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Stokes was a fluke, bouncy roads at home are bouncy roads at home.

I do legitimately blame Lyon for this last one though.
 

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Stokes was a fluke, bouncy roads at home are bouncy roads at home.

I do legitimately blame Lyon for this last one though.
Thought both SCG and the Gabba had enough for him to do far better than he did.

Also if we want to find a common denominator here, maybe this is the one:

Australia v India 3rd Test 2020/21 - Mitchell Starc took 0 wickets for 66 runs
Australia v India 4th Test 2020/21 - Mitchell Starc took 0 wickets for 75 runs (at 4.7 RPO)
Australia v England 4th Test 2021/22 - Mitchell Starc took 0 wickets for 68 runs
Pakistan v Australia 2nd Test 2021/22 - Mitchell Starc took 0 wickets for 58 runs

This is the guy who is supposedly a terror against the tail who will blow them away with searing yorkers. Yeah he didnt bowl enough to the tail today but maybe Cummins agrees that he's kinda not great in those situations.
 

cnerd123

likes this
Australia's bowling averages in the 4th innings in the last 2 years:

Cummins - 13 wickets @ 26.61
Lyon - 12 wickets @ 33.25
Green - 5 wickets @ 28.20
Starc - 4 wickets @ 90.00
Hazelwood - 3 wickets @ 42.33
Neser - 1/28
Swepson - 0/156

Source

Should be picking Boland and Jhye Richardson going off this. Also Labu 13 overs for 41 runs heh.
 

artvandalay

State Vice-Captain
Thought both SCG and the Gabba had enough for him to do far better than he did.

Also if we want to find a common denominator here, maybe this is the one:

Australia v India 3rd Test 2020/21 - Mitchell Starc took 0 wickets for 66 runs
Australia v India 4th Test 2020/21 - Mitchell Starc took 0 wickets for 75 runs (at 4.7 RPO)
Australia v England 4th Test 2021/22 - Mitchell Starc took 0 wickets for 68 runs
Pakistan v Australia 2nd Test 2021/22 - Mitchell Starc took 0 wickets for 58 runs

This is the guy who is supposedly a terror against the tail who will blow them away with searing yorkers. Yeah he didnt bowl enough to the tail today but maybe Cummins agrees that he's kinda not great in those situations.
Lack of reverse swing maybe?:ph34r:
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Really? He's primarily a swing bowler, isn't he? It reversed in *that* innings but Starc did well there anyway.
He's a shorter and skiddier kind of seamer, similar to the sort that India have done very well at producing in the last few years.
 

loterry1994

International Debutant
I think out of those matches you mentioned the Indian ones are the most legit and thought India did well to get a win and draw to win that series. Not saying that the other teams didn’t put on good batting efforts as well, but I still largely put it down to some the poor captaincy decisions.

the ashes 2019 test with Stokes getting the win that’s a once in a lifetime innings but Paine burned that last review on an lbw shout that was no where near than the umpire gives a not out to a straight one and not to forget Lyons absolute blunder of missed run out. The SCG ashes test that declaration was absolutely poor as well even though England did well to survive heaps of overs,Aus really didn’t need to bat as long as they did with rain looming around for Khawaja and I think it was Cam green trying to get a hundred.

same thing the last Pakistan test not having the guts to go for the follow on and possibly have Pakistan 1-2 wickets down before day 4. Starc and Lyon are kind of ineffective in 4th innings as well especially Lyon. That’s why even with 400 wickets I don’t rate him as one the all timers I don’t remember him ever winning aus a test in the 4th innings
 

Gob

International Coach
I think out of those matches you mentioned the Indian ones are the most legit and thought India did well to get a win and draw to win that series. Not saying that the other teams didn’t put on good batting efforts as well, but I still largely put it down to some the poor captaincy decisions.

the ashes 2019 test with Stokes getting the win that’s a once in a lifetime innings but Paine burned that last review on an lbw shout that was no where near than the umpire gives a not out to a straight one and not to forget Lyons absolute blunder of missed run out. The SCG ashes test that declaration was absolutely poor as well even though England did well to survive heaps of overs,Aus really didn’t need to bat as long as they did with rain looming around for Khawaja and I think it was Cam green trying to get a hundred.

same thing the last Pakistan test not having the guts to go for the follow on and possibly have Pakistan 1-2 wickets down before day 4. Starc and Lyon are kind of ineffective in 4th innings as well especially Lyon. That’s why even with 400 wickets I don’t rate him as one the all timers I don’t remember him ever winning aus a test in the 4th innings
Adelaide 14
 

Gob

International Coach
He also won them the last Edgbaston test. I'm sure I can conjure few others as well. It's just that he doesn't do it as often as others
 

Top