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CW's Ranking of All-Rounders (Tests)

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
And another of his tons came in a match in which he took 10 ****ing wickets. And yet somehow this translates to worse than Kapil's 2 more centuries in 43 more games, a guy who took 1 fewer wicket per match at an average barely under 30. And also Mike Procter's glorious batting average of 18 (??????).
Before 1987

Imran
60 tests, 89 innings
2255 runs, 14 not out
Avg 30.06
2 x 100, 9 x 50

Kapil 82 tests , 119 innings
3426 runs , 11 not outs
Avg 31.72
5 x 100, 17 x 50
( and you know he was the fastest scorer in the world capable of scoring 95 ball 100 against greatest ever bowling attack )

Imran was more like Hadlee until then.

Procter Batting avg 25, bowling avg 15.
 

trundler

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Before 1987

Imran
60 tests, 89 innings
2255 runs, 14 not out
Avg 30.06
2 x 100, 9 x 50

Kapil 82 tests , 119 innings
3426 runs , 11 not outs
Avg 31.72
5 x 100, 17 x 50
( and you know he was the fastest scorer in the world capable of scoring 95 ball 100 against greatest ever bowling attack )

Imran was more like Hadlee until then.

Procter Batting avg 25, bowling avg 15.
Not counting 1987 is stupid and pointless. Take out 1976 and Viv's average plummets، might as well take out 1982 for Kapil because he only did well with the bat that year. Imran was clearly better than Hadlee with bat and let's have his bowling stats for the same period, shall we?
 

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
Not counting 1987 is stupid and pointless. Take out 1976 and Viv's average plummets، might as well take out 1982 for Kapil because he only did well with the bat that year. Imran was clearly better than Hadlee with bat and let's have his bowling stats for the same period, shall we?
Kapil's batting quality remained same throughout his career except for normal decline or form outs.
Imran vastly improved his batting towards end of his career, but then his bowling was on decline.
Imran better than Hadlee in batting, but difference was small until late 80s.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Before 1987

Imran
60 tests, 89 innings
2255 runs, 14 not out
Avg 30.06
2 x 100, 9 x 50

Kapil 82 tests , 119 innings
3426 runs , 11 not outs
Avg 31.72
5 x 100, 17 x 50
( and you know he was the fastest scorer in the world capable of scoring 95 ball 100 against greatest ever bowling attack )

Imran was more like Hadlee until then.

Procter Batting avg 25, bowling avg 15.
In other words, let us just check a period that makes Imran look worse while arbitrarily excluding the couple of years when he was still an all-rounder.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Kapil's batting quality remained same throughout his career except for normal decline or form outs.
Imran vastly improved his batting towards end of his career, but then his bowling was on decline.
Imran better than Hadlee in batting, but difference was small until late 80s.
His bowling declined 1989 onwards. Until that point he still had better numbers than Kapil and Hadlee.

You do realize you can do the same cherrypicking for Hadlee and Kapil to make them seem worse in their career? Imran, Hadlee and Kapil all improved in their batting as their careers when along, so comparing their overall careers with Imran's pre-1987 is silly.

Hadlee was averaging around 21 as a bat in the first 40 tests of his career. The next 46 he averaged 33.

Kapil averaged 42 in his first 10 tests, then 27 for the next 52 during his bowling peak (79-83), and only then improved again averaging 32 in his last 69 tests when his bowling declined.

Imran pretty much from 1980 onwards was always a superior bat to Kapil and Hadlee, no matter your revisionism. If you want a proper comparison, see how Kapil, Hadlee and Imran did during their bowling peaks and you will know who is the superior all-rounder.
 
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trundler

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His bowling declined 1989 onwards. Until that point he still had better numbers than Kapil and Hadlee.

You do realize you can do the same cherrypicking for Hadlee and Kapil to make them seem worse in their career? Imran, Hadlee and Kapil all improved in their batting as their careers when along, so comparing their overall careers with Imran's pre-1987 is silly.

Hadlee was averaging around 21 as a bat in the first 40 tests of his career. The next 46 he averaged 33.

Kapil averaged 42 in his first 10 tests, then 27 for the next 52 during his bowling peak (79-83), and only then improved again averaging 32 in his last 69 tests when his bowling declined.

Imran pretty much from 1980 onwards was always a superior bat to Kapil and Hadlee, no matter your revisionism. If you want a proper comparison, see how Kapil, Hadlee and Imran did during their bowling peaks and you will know who is the superior all-rounder.
I don't mind anyone thinking Kapil was better than Imran as a batsman. Fair enough given Kapil played more explosive knocks but hey, Imran was never dropped for being reckless either. In either case, Imran and Kapil are comparable batsmen but one completely blows away the other with the ball.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
I don't mind anyone thinking Kapil was better than Imran as a batsman. Fair enough given Kapil played more explosive knocks but hey, Imran was never dropped for being reckless either. In either case, Imran and Kapil are comparable batsmen but one completely blows away the other with the ball.
Yeah, it was in response to a poster suggesting Kapil was a better allrounder than Imran by virtue of such a batting advantage. I think Imran is comfortably better with the bat, but at the very least they are near the same level, and bowling wise Imran >>> Kapil.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Yeah, it was in response to a poster suggesting Kapil was a better allrounder than Imran by virtue of such a batting advantage. I think Imran is comfortably better with the bat, but at the very least they are near the same level, and bowling wise Imran >>> Kapil.
Not sure what you mean by "comfortably" better but the gap between the two's batting was not that big. They were different type of batters too with Imran being more defensive and Kapil more aggressive.
 

Migara

International Coach
So Cairns is better AR, yet he is not better cricketer.
Kapil, Botham and Miller consistently threatened opposition bowlers and destroyed their plans with impactful batting.
Hadlee wasn't same league in this regard. Allround impact was lesser compared to other 3. ( Lara was an extreme example )

I am not sure, who is best ODI cricketer among Jayasuriya, Klusner and Pollock.. But I know best AR is Klusner.
Kapil and Botham was no where impactful with the ball like Imran or Hadlee. Imran and Hadlee as bowlers alone are better players than Kapil or Botham as all rounders.
 

Migara

International Coach
Kapil and Botham were the best bowlers in their team.
In an Imaginary world 11, they would be 5th bowlers but still there is no proper alternative ATG bowler + Botham / Kapil / Miller level batting (Bar Procter ).
A 5 th ATG bowler adds strength to bowling, but a proper allrounder means more depth in batting. 5th ATG bowler will be an overkill at the cost of Batting depth.

Reality
Kapil / Botham were the specialists + Batting ability

Fantasy
Kapil / Botham/ Miller - better choices as AR than Hadlee and Imran.
No. They were good bowlers and good batsman. Imran and Hadlee are ATG bowlers + useful bats.
 

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