CW's Ranking of All-Rounders (Tests)

[Pothas]

Imran

 

[Pothas]

I think that get's overplayed. It's not like he wasn't a proper allrounder prior to 1988, after which he became a specialist bat until retirement. In fact, in his bowling peak from 80-88 he was also the best allrounder in the world.

Yep. I think it might be the biggest myth on here.

Imran was ridiculous.

 

[Victor Ian]

Imran was just a regular bowler initially. A struggler. Then he had that amazing peak, and was ok with the bat, for a bowler. Then he was better with the bat but at the expense of his bowling.

Imran's peak bowling was ridiculous, so that if we consider peaks he has a case for best bowler ever. But this is about all rounders. Imran is being judged on his peak bowling which was good enough to make everyone forget his bookend performances, but if we are looking at peaks, how does botham's 8 year peak compare?

 

[subshakerz]

Overall cricketers

Sobers >> Procter > Hadlee > Imran > Kapil > Botham > Miller > Kallis > Pollock

As Allrounder

Sobers >> Procter > Kapil > Botham > Miller > Imran > Hadlee > Kallis > Pollock

Yeah I dont see the point of ranking allrounder differently than as cricketer.

 

[steve132]

Imran

 

[subshakerz]

Imran was just a regular bowler initially. A struggler. Then he had that amazing peak, and was ok with the bat, for a bowler. Then he was better with the bat but at the expense of his bowling.

Imran's peak bowling was ridiculous, so that if we consider peaks he has a case for best bowler ever. But this is about all rounders. Imran is being judged on his peak bowling which was good enough to make everyone forget his bookend performances, but if we are looking at peaks, how does botham's 8 year peak compare?

Imran had a batting average of 40 during his bowling peak from 80 to 88 and scored 3 of his 6 tons then. Even if you think he had a lot of not outs he was a proper lower order bat especially by 1980 standards.

By 1982 he had overtaken Botham as the best allrounder in the world. Bothams peak had better batting numbers in terms of output but not on the same bowling level.

 

[Victor Ian]

An all-round superstar

At his peak, Ian Botham's match-winning skills as an allrounder were unparalleled, and he could have made it to the England team as either a specialist batsman or bowler

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[smash84]

An all-round superstar

At his peak, Ian Botham's match-winning skills as an allrounder were unparalleled, and he could have made it to the England team as either a specialist batsman or bowler

www.espncricinfo.com

A giant among allrounders

At his peak, Imran Khan the bowler was easily among the best in the world, while his skilful batting and inspirational captaincy made him the complete package

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Victor Ian]

Most importantly, ian Botham aces the 'how did he go in India' test, which is the most important stat of all.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Most importantly, ian Botham aces the 'how did he go in India' test, which is the most important stat of all.

Botham was also (by far) the worst of the big 4 vs the Windies.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Botham averaged 21 with the bat and 35 with the ball against the greatest test team of all time. Imran averaged 28 with the bat and 21 with the ball against the greatest test team of all time.

Not much difference in batting I guess, but that bowling difference…

 

[gftw]

Imran - 13
Kallis - 6
Miller - 2
Grace - 1
Botham - 1
Dodemaide - 1
Pringle - 1

The List
1. Garry Sobers
2. Imran Khan

The vote for the #3 test all-rounder of all-time begins now.

 

[AndrewB]

I might have said this here before, but I always think it's unfortunate that Botham (a) was not 100% fit and (b) had just been made captain, a role he wasn't really suited for, in England's back-to-back series against WI in 1980-81. If he'd been fully fit and not captain, then either he'd have done significantly better, and it'd be hard to deny that Botham was playing at ATG level at least from 1977-82; or he'd still have failed with the bat and been moderate with the ball, and it'd be fair to say he was "great against most sides but couldn't hack it against the best". (Note that in 1984, his averages of 34/35 weren't that different from how he was performing against everyone else by then).

 

[ataraxia]

Miller

 

[Coronis]

Kallis

 

[CricAddict]

Kallis

 

[subshakerz]

Hadlee.

 

[CricAddict]

I might have said this here before, but I always think it's unfortunate that Botham (a) was not 100% fit and (b) had just been made captain, a role he wasn't really suited for, in England's back-to-back series against WI in 1980-81. If he'd been fully fit and not captain, then either he'd have done significantly better, and it'd be hard to deny that Botham was playing at ATG level at least from 1977-82; or he'd still have failed with the bat and been moderate with the ball, and it'd be fair to say he was "great against most sides but couldn't hack it against the best". (Note that in 1984, his averages of 34/35 weren't that different from how he was performing against everyone else by then).

Ifs and buts. We will have to judge a player for these rankings based on what happened and not on what could have happened.

 

[Daemon]

Kallis

 

[subshakerz]

I might have said this here before, but I always think it's unfortunate that Botham (a) was not 100% fit and (b) had just been made captain, a role he wasn't really suited for, in England's back-to-back series against WI in 1980-81. If he'd been fully fit and not captain, then either he'd have done significantly better, and it'd be hard to deny that Botham was playing at ATG level at least from 1977-82; or he'd still have failed with the bat and been moderate with the ball, and it'd be fair to say he was "great against most sides but couldn't hack it against the best". (Note that in 1984, his averages of 34/35 weren't that different from how he was performing against everyone else by then).

In the final analysis he was 'great against most sides but couldn't hack it against the best'. Injuries are a possible excuse (though in Botham's case it was more poor fitness which is his own fault) but captaincy is not.