CW's Ranking of All-Rounders (Tests)

[trundler]

Virgin took forever to score a double century Kallis

Chad 6 10 wicket hauls Imran

 

[Fuller Pilch]

One thing about kallis which probably makes me under rate him massively is i never really thought he’d hurt Australia when we played SA.

I was much more worried when the likes of Botham, Kapil or Flintoff were in the game than when Kallis (or pollock for that matter) were. Which isn’t fair on him given his numbers, just the other blokes were more explosive players I suppose

Traditionally we think of all rounders as strike bowlers who get important wickets and score "exciting" runs but often throw their wickets away. See Miller, the 80s quartet, Cairns and Flintoff etc.

Kallis - a dour batsman with great concentration and a slow strike rate and a useful 4th seamer broke the mould. So too have all the spin bowling allrounders of the last 15 years with Shakib, Vettori, and the 2 Ravis from India.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Virgin took forever to score a double century Kallis View attachment 30673

Chad 6 10 wicket hauls Imran View attachment 30674

45 100s and 5 5-fers in 166 tests vs 23 5-fers and 6 100s in 88 tests.

 

[Daemon]

Kallis
He has a runs v wickets average comparison of +22.72 compared with Imran's +14.78 - a difference too hard to ignore..

Jayasuriya was a better all rounder than Kapil Dev by this metric.

 

[subshakerz]

Nah. I'm taking botham's first half so I know which cricketer I am getting. Was Imran really an all time great in the last half of his career? He morphed into a batsman at the expense of his bowling. Kallis is a fair call.

The latter 'half' of Imran's career as a pure bat was around only 15 tests. Prior to that he was still averaging 33 as a bat while being an ATG bowler.

Whereas Botham's turn to mediocrity was pretty much over 50 tests of his 102 tests. You can't just ignore half of his career.

If we are only going to select cricketers for a peak minority portion of their career then Waqar Younis should be in the top 5 bowlers ever.

 

[trundler]

If Kallis was so good he should've tried winning more matches tbh

 

[subshakerz]

One thing about kallis which probably makes me under rate him massively is i never really thought he’d hurt Australia when we played SA.

I was much more worried when the likes of Botham, Kapil or Flintoff were in the game than when Kallis (or pollock for that matter) were. Which isn’t fair on him given his numbers, just the other blokes were more explosive players I suppose

Yeah my main critique of Kallis the bat is that he has virtually no masterclass innings I can remember in his career of over 160 tests, except maybe his first ton against Australia which saved a test.

For most of his career, he was just a very fine accumulator in a batting lineup of accumulators. From 2008 onwards he was a bit better though and could be aggressive.

 

[subshakerz]

If Kallis was so good he should've tried winning more matches tbh

Kallis basically had only one dour gear for batting for most of his career. Unlike ABD or Amla who could block, accumulate or smash as the occasion called for it.

 

[subshakerz]

Traditionally we think of all rounders as strike bowlers who get important wickets and score "exciting" runs but often throw their wickets away. See Miller, the 80s quartet, Cairns and Flintoff etc.

Kallis - a dour batsman with great concentration and a slow strike rate and a useful 4th seamer broke the mould. So too have all the spin bowling allrounders of the last 15 years with Shakib, Vettori, and the 2 Ravis from India.

Pollock was pretty much the bowling version of Kallis.

 

[StephenZA]

Most of the people who call Kallis dour don't understand the man, the role he was given, or how SA team cricket worked.

 

[subshakerz]

Most of the people who call Kallis dour don't understand the man, the role he was given, or how SA team cricket worked.

I saw Kallis pretty much all of his career. Its not like he was in a shabby batting lineup that forced him to do damage control all the time. Or its not like he was in Dravid's situation where he was supposed to be the rock around which flashier batsmen would bat around.

Kallis was the main man in a decent batting lineup but he pretty much batted in a dour fashion which set a tone for much of the batting in general.

 

[StephenZA]

One thing about kallis which probably makes me under rate him massively is i never really thought he’d hurt Australia when we played SA.

I was much more worried when the likes of Botham, Kapil or Flintoff were in the game than when Kallis (or pollock for that matter) were. Which isn’t fair on him given his numbers, just the other blokes were more explosive players I suppose

It is not so much that Kallis would take the game away from you... but while he was there you knew that SA would post a total, and that would allow the strong bowling attack to do their job. But for the first half of his career (if not longer) once Kallis was out half the job was done.

 

[StephenZA]

I saw Kallis pretty much all of his career. Its not like he was in a shabby batting lineup that forced him to do damage control all the time. Or its not like he was in Dravid's situation where he was supposed to be the rock around which flashier batsmen would bat around.

Kallis was the main man in a decent batting lineup but he pretty much batted in a dour fashion which set a tone for much of the batting in general.

Which pretty much shows that you do not really know SA cricket... considering that 50/4 was standard meme for SA cricket batting before memes existed. There is a lot said about the 90s SA batting due to the number of allrounders and the bat deep nonsense... but beyond Kallis and maybe Kirsten not a great deal of true quality was around. Lots of not too bad if looked at in the right light...

 

[subshakerz]

It is not so much that Kallis would take the game away from you... but while he was there you knew that SA would post a total, and that would allow the strong bowling attack to do their job. But for the first half of his career (if not longer) once Kallis was out half the job was done.

Except that in the first half of his career he had Kirsten, Cullinan, Smith, Gibbs, Ashwell Prince and other quality bats around him. You are underrating the strength of that batting lineup to make Kallis look better.

 

[subshakerz]

Which pretty much shows that you do not really know SA cricket... considering that 50/4 was standard meme for SA cricket batting before memes existed. There is a lot said about the 90s SA batting due to the number of allrounders and the bat deep nonsense... but beyond Kallis and maybe Kirsten not a great deal of true quality was around. Lots of not too bad if looked at in the right light...

You must be confusing mid-90s SA with England or NZ since SA had the best batting lineup of that time after Australia.

 

[StephenZA]

Except that in the first half of his career he had Kirsten, Cullinan, Smith, Gibbs, Ashwell Prince and other quality bats around him. You are underrating the strength of that batting lineup to make Kallis look better.

No, I just watched SA cricket through my life pretty diligently... I know who did what when and what they where capable of.

 

[trundler]

I genuinely can't fathom Kallis over Imran tbh. Kallis is more like Hadlee's equal as an all rounder. Kallis isn't appreciated enough for being the only SA batsman since readmission to average 50 at home and as I've said before, he's an absolute giant for playing 160+ tests, that too with a bowling workload. But I don't think he has any longevity points over Imran. In fact, in just about every meaningful way I can compare them, Imran was probably better. Imran was a better batsman than Kallis was a bowler (duh) and a better, more reliable batsman than Kallis was a bowler. In terms of all round feats, where Sobers is unquestionably #1 and Botham second, Imran did more than Kallis. Century and 10fer in the same game, iconic. Imran was more clutch and better against the best team of his time too. Too many people falling for the Kallis was Ponting and Zaheer Khan combined meme.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Currently

Imran 7
Kallis 5

and 1 each for Miller, Grace, Botham, and the great Tony Dodemaide. Still awaiting PFK's vote for Procter.

 

[honestbharani]

Imran by the length of [something very long]

I know what you wanna say but @smash84 will smash for you saying that before him.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Currently

Imran 7
Kallis 5

and 1 each for Miller, Grace, Botham, and the great Tony Dodemaide. Still awaiting PFK's vote for Procter.

Overrated Imran is not the 2nd greatest allrounder.. But Kallis at number 2 is unthinkable.

My vote is for Imran.