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England (and Wales) gloom, doom and recriminations thread
- Thread starter wpdavid
- Start date
flibbertyjibber
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Not really, Broad and Anderson get rotated, Wood will break down and Robinson is getting his fitness questioned.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
Yes none of the bowlers played 5 tests.
Just rotate the captain around for the banter. England redefining cricket again like when we played a team full of wks and allrounders.
Just rotate the captain around for the banter. England redefining cricket again like when we played a team full of wks and allrounders.
Shri
Mr. Glass
broad and anderson should play every game and provide the team some stability or retire if they cannoy
Blenkinsop
U19 Vice-Captain
If Curran and Bess are the answer then shoot me now.
What was the question again?
What was the question again?
Red_Ink_Squid
Global Moderator
I don't think there is a specific question right now, just a pervasive air of melancholy.
loterry1994
International Debutant
The rotating of bowlers really hurts England and I think will continue to do so. I think Jimmy and Broad could of played all of the ashes tests. I don’t think Australia would of rotated their big 3 quicks if it wasnt for injury and covid
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
This XI for West Indies
Hameed, Libby, Bohannon (maybe Abell), Root, Lawrence, Livingstone, Foakes, Robinson, Leach, Wood, Anderson
Hameed, Libby, Bohannon (maybe Abell), Root, Lawrence, Livingstone, Foakes, Robinson, Leach, Wood, Anderson
Agreed. Australia had no interest in doing so. Worse still, England played the wrong bowlers in the wrong Tests at time whilst they were trying to be cute. When you're up against it, as England always were going to, you play your best line-up until a) they physically can't go any more b) the series is done (ie it's 3-0 or whatever)
Not Crawley at the top of the order? I know he didn't deliver but at least he looks like he's got a technique to play Test cricket. Doesn't look optimistic when some of those guys you're suggesting average just over 30 in the Championship. Plus Hameed who looks as much of a walking wicket as Sibley and co before him
cricketsavant
U19 12th Man
There needs to be change and none more important than on field personnel. Coaches will be axed, selection staff too, there will be talk of behind the scenes updates and reinvigoration, a PR team will be employed to reduce the damage but all of that will be useless unless and untill the squad is changed.
Broad and Jimmy must go. They can not play 4-5 tests in a row, their pace is useless, they mainly perform in swinging conditions and have spent 5 years potentially taking the spot of younger, fresher bowlers or playing so many home tests that younger bowlers can't even get a game in advantageous conditions. Woakes should be on a knife edge.
The bowling unit needs to be:
Archer (it's imperative ECB keep him injury free)
Wood
Mahmoud
Robinson
Sam Curran
ANother young hand from the county scene
Spin options in Leach and Bess are available but more are needed.
That's the core unit the team needs to build around. The batting however looks dire.
Broad and Jimmy must go. They can not play 4-5 tests in a row, their pace is useless, they mainly perform in swinging conditions and have spent 5 years potentially taking the spot of younger, fresher bowlers or playing so many home tests that younger bowlers can't even get a game in advantageous conditions. Woakes should be on a knife edge.
The bowling unit needs to be:
Archer (it's imperative ECB keep him injury free)
Wood
Mahmoud
Robinson
Sam Curran
ANother young hand from the county scene
Spin options in Leach and Bess are available but more are needed.
That's the core unit the team needs to build around. The batting however looks dire.
Blenkinsop
U19 Vice-Captain
Who says Broad and Anderson can't play five Tests in a row? That was a dumb selectorial decision, not their choice. They should be picked as long as they are the best bowlers, which they are, and both should have played at least the first three Tests on this tour. Both are obviously fitter than eg. Robinson despite the age difference. And both can still bowl mid-130s when they choose to.
It would be lovely to have Archer and Stone back fit and ready to play long series but realistically I think we need to plan for a future where that won't happen. Archer has already been out for the best part of two years.
Sam Curran is a trier but is not Test class with either bat or ball. Nor is Bess.
It would be lovely to have Archer and Stone back fit and ready to play long series but realistically I think we need to plan for a future where that won't happen. Archer has already been out for the best part of two years.
Sam Curran is a trier but is not Test class with either bat or ball. Nor is Bess.
This ought to be the end of the road for Hameed, Burns, Malan, Pope and Buttler. The three older guys should never return. I don't see Hameed coming back. Pope needs to buck his ideas up with a couple of seasons in county cricket.
Batsmen who ought to be in the mix now are Duckett, Libby, Yates, Haines, Bohannon, Joe Clarke, Lawrence, Livingstone, possibly even Vince. Not that these guys are banging down the door with their FC records, but I'd like to see Duckett opening (probably with Crawley) and Livingstone in the middle order as he clearly has a strong temperament for this level. Ideally, one of these guys can step up as a number three. Outside of the openers, they're all number fives.
Bowling-wise, I don't see Broad/Anderson retiring but they won't be playing every Test. Not sure how that frequent rotation helps but there you go. Woakes, Robinson and Wood would all be in the mix - Woakes should only be playing home Tests these days, Robinson needs to improve his stamina, and Wood will still need some careful management. Mahmood is an obvious choice going forward, maybe Brydon Carse as a curveball (he did well in the Pakistan ODIs). There are loads of medium pacers (Coad, Porter, Cook, Fisher) who can take wickets in the CC but probably won't make the step up. I'm very uncertain that SCurran should be in the side unless he's the fourth seamer in a five man attack. Parkinson should be challenging Leach for the spin role, but then I'd feel sorry for the poor guy if Root was captaining. Bess shouldn't be anywhere near the side.
In short, we're not likely to improve quickly. SA will fancy the Summer series.
Batsmen who ought to be in the mix now are Duckett, Libby, Yates, Haines, Bohannon, Joe Clarke, Lawrence, Livingstone, possibly even Vince. Not that these guys are banging down the door with their FC records, but I'd like to see Duckett opening (probably with Crawley) and Livingstone in the middle order as he clearly has a strong temperament for this level. Ideally, one of these guys can step up as a number three. Outside of the openers, they're all number fives.
Bowling-wise, I don't see Broad/Anderson retiring but they won't be playing every Test. Not sure how that frequent rotation helps but there you go. Woakes, Robinson and Wood would all be in the mix - Woakes should only be playing home Tests these days, Robinson needs to improve his stamina, and Wood will still need some careful management. Mahmood is an obvious choice going forward, maybe Brydon Carse as a curveball (he did well in the Pakistan ODIs). There are loads of medium pacers (Coad, Porter, Cook, Fisher) who can take wickets in the CC but probably won't make the step up. I'm very uncertain that SCurran should be in the side unless he's the fourth seamer in a five man attack. Parkinson should be challenging Leach for the spin role, but then I'd feel sorry for the poor guy if Root was captaining. Bess shouldn't be anywhere near the side.
In short, we're not likely to improve quickly. SA will fancy the Summer series.
hazsa19
International Regular
All the coaches and Giles can **** off. Root you’ve had your time as Captain, please stop.
Burns, Malan, Buttler to never play Test
cricket again.
Hameed and Pope to have an extended time out of the side.
Woakes is on thin ice. Hell knows what we do with Broad/ Anderson, I kind of just hope they retire. I just feel like it might be time to move on.
Leach to play every match for a year.
Who comes in? Who captains? I have no idea, they won’t do any worse so let’s start again.
Burns, Malan, Buttler to never play Test
cricket again.
Hameed and Pope to have an extended time out of the side.
Woakes is on thin ice. Hell knows what we do with Broad/ Anderson, I kind of just hope they retire. I just feel like it might be time to move on.
Leach to play every match for a year.
Who comes in? Who captains? I have no idea, they won’t do any worse so let’s start again.
Blenkinsop
U19 Vice-Captain
The people who should fall on their swords are not the coaches but Harrison and the rest of the ECB management. This is ultimately their fault.
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
It’s not Dickie Bird’s fault.
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It might be - what's the name of that Ray Bradbury short story about the time travelling dinosaur hunters and the butterfly?
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
Was that the one where they could only time travel via the drains?
Chubb
International Regular
I am a big fan of Hameed and still hope he will come good.
Would like to see Livingstone given a go. I know his first-class record isn't great but he has the right attitude to succeed. And clearly Bohannon has the best record in first-class cricket in recent times though I haven't seen him bat.
It remains very unlikely the ECB will select Joe Clarke for obvious and completely understandable reasons. Am not convinced he'd do any better than several players who have not disgraced themselves off the field either - eg Dan Lawrence. Duckett had issues when he was younger but nothing like Clarke's.
I don't think it really matters which bowlers out of the pool you select - bowling isn't the problem. Broad was right when he said it doesn't matter how you bowl if you're getting bowled out for 140 all the time. Just go horses-for-courses and fitness.
Time's up for Buttler and while many of us want to see Foakes, you have to respect Bairstow's recent form in the Ashes - would not be opposed to Billings getting a run though.
So perhaps:
Hameed
Crawley
Bohannon
Root
Livingstone
Stokes
Bairstow
Robinson
Archer/Stone/Wood
Anderson/Broad/Woakes
Leach
Would like to see Livingstone given a go. I know his first-class record isn't great but he has the right attitude to succeed. And clearly Bohannon has the best record in first-class cricket in recent times though I haven't seen him bat.
It remains very unlikely the ECB will select Joe Clarke for obvious and completely understandable reasons. Am not convinced he'd do any better than several players who have not disgraced themselves off the field either - eg Dan Lawrence. Duckett had issues when he was younger but nothing like Clarke's.
I don't think it really matters which bowlers out of the pool you select - bowling isn't the problem. Broad was right when he said it doesn't matter how you bowl if you're getting bowled out for 140 all the time. Just go horses-for-courses and fitness.
Time's up for Buttler and while many of us want to see Foakes, you have to respect Bairstow's recent form in the Ashes - would not be opposed to Billings getting a run though.
So perhaps:
Hameed
Crawley
Bohannon
Root
Livingstone
Stokes
Bairstow
Robinson
Archer/Stone/Wood
Anderson/Broad/Woakes
Leach