The English First Class Competition - a blank canvas...

[chris.hinton]

of all the 'real world' suggestions I've heard this is the best, but with a couple of caveats.

1) the Premier League sides get more ECB money specifically SO they can buy the best players.
2) there's an understanding that if you play in the Premier League you ARE more likely to get picked by England.
3) a genius coach/mananger will rock up at a Division One/Championship side and either a) make clever signings or b) nurture the youth policy so 5-6 top level players come through at once, get them to the Premier League and keep them there.

In this context the Premier League HAS to be an elite competition, consisting of England players, wannabe England players and top foreign talent (3-4 per side, which is the right balance IMO).

The second tier would be a great breeding ground for any emerging talent to be snapped up by a top EPL side or if a team of them emerged, to replace the worst EPL team and stay there.

The counties would stay in existence.

And we'd have a preliminary round of the NatWest where Cheshire vs Suffolk would be on television. Only once a year but well worth it. 20 Minor Counties would leave 32 under your format, so let's go for it...

Great post and really imaginative - thanks...

Don't think Cheshire vs Suffolk would be worthy on TV but a better marketing campaign and they can be all streamed. Premier League would need to have the very best for it to work, Would give a lesser talent pool to pick from but i feel 2 divisions is still needed.

 

[chris.hinton]

One division of 18 counties, play each team once, get rid of the HUNDRED.
One 4 day match a week, 1 either T20 or 50 over match a week (Two days off a week) (the counties are in two groups of 9 for limited overs cricket, so that's 8 matches per comp, top 4 in each comp go to finals)

Have September for the T20 & 50 overs finals days, which includes QF's, SF'S on separate days.

This is the older method which isn't bad but England's fortunes changed with 2 divisions and Central contracts so its unlikely they will go back to 1 division anytime soon.

 

[ImpatientLime]

do away with the hundred if you wish but a t20 franchise tournament is a must. it is the easiest gateway into the sport for outsiders and the most tv friendly. you need to concentrate the talent in those circumstances.

 

[cricketsavant]

Some quite in-depth responses! I have enjoyed reading them but there is still a lot of emphasis on the idea of counties playing cricket, but that directly feeds off the private/familial and grammar school system, which has stifled the game. So much talent is lost from comprehensive schools, working class backgrounds, South Asian cricketers plying their trades in random clubs or just playing recreational cricket on the odd weekend.

The ECB claimed, years ago that they wanted to access and promote such communities but each initiative has been either a failure or a PR stunt...or both.

So let's imagine an honest ECB and a genuine blank slate.

Cricket teams, playing a 4-day championship should be region based, some regions could be entire cities, London, Birmingham, Manchester come to mind and others could be geographical regions, combining towns and cities. How many teams this would generate obviously requires a deeper dive but I'd be looking at say 8-10:
London
Birmingham
Manchester
South West England
Mid-East England (Norwich, Colchester etc)
North England
East Wales (Cardiff and additional districts)
West Wales (Swansea and additional districts)

That is just off the top of my head but all areas contain metropolitan centers as well as access to grammar and private schools, with local grounds if international grounds are busy.

Each team plays each other twice: home and away, making use of out grounds if needed.

Obviously all of this requires a revamping of the financial structure, where private investors essentially create IPL/PSL/Hundred style franchises. Team sports the world over has shown that there is loyalty of city/regional based teams with lots of sponsors willing to work with such outfits.

There would need to be investment in local grounds and parks, in comprehensive schools and competitive junior level cricket, with academies feeding into each of the teams (much like PL football academies all across the country).

The aim would be to play games during the best summer months of June, July and August:
Games to be separated into round 1 (all teams play each other once) - June
Round 2 (teams playing each other the second time around) - late July through mid-August

Obviously the home test summer would be played throughout this period too, but the use of out grounds would help, as would smaller, locality based arenas that could hold a few hundred spectators. When there is no home test/LO cricket, all England players must be available for their counties if they have had a max two-day break.

It's a basic structure with a lot of detail to be worked out but my aim would be to maximise interest in the game, provide the best quality weather and games, while appealing to a much wider audience.

 

[tony p]

THEY WILL NEVER GET RID OF THE 18 COUNTIES.
Supporters won't let it happen.
Fans are so parochial, they aren't going to attend or listen or watch on a stream a team called South West England, East Wales, just won't happen.
I support Kent even though I live in Australia. When I go to England on holiday to watch cricket I watch them at Canterbury or Tunbridge Wells, I wouldn't waste my money and fly over to watch a team called South West England or London etc.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Small story which could (or could not) be tangentially related to the larger point

A mutual friend of mine signed a professional contract with Warwickshire five years ago, and a couple of years later gravitated to the first team and scored a century opening the batting v Lancs with an attack featuring James Anderson. He averages just over 20 from 11 FC games
Since being released from the county two seasons ago, he's taken up a work opportunity in Brisbane and regularly plays 2s Grade cricket for his club. He's played a little bit of 1s but says the standard in his own words "is just exponentially better than anything back home in club cricket" (this would be in Birmingham)
"It's much tougher, the fixtures are not condensed so that adequate preparation is taken into consideration and the fast bowlers bowl quicker for longer periods of time" "Playing a game held over two weekends builds up resilience and mental toughness, as batsman need to bat long periods and can build a foundation, and bowlers have to bowl 3-4 spells per day" "This is never seen back in England" "It's not too demanding and average players can coast at this level and not be 'found out' when they enter the professional game

Just an anecdote from a mutual friend who I happen to chat to at some length last year

 

[Prince EWS]

Small story which could (or could not) be tangentially related to the larger point

A mutual friend of mine signed a professional contract with Warwickshire five years ago, and a couple of years later gravitated to the first team and scored a century opening the batting v Lancs with an attack featuring James Anderson. He averages just over 20 from 11 FC games
Since being released from the county two seasons ago, he's taken up a work opportunity in Brisbane and regularly plays 2s Grade cricket for his club. He's played a little bit of 1s but says the standard in his own words "is just exponentially better than anything back home in club cricket" (this would be in Birmingham)
"It's much tougher, the fixtures are condensed so that adequate preparation is taken into consideration and the fast bowlers bowl quicker for longer periods of time" "Playing a game held over two weekends builds up resilience and mental toughness, as batsman need to bat long periods and can build a foundation, and bowlers have to bowl 3-4 spells per day" "This is never seen back in England" "It's not too demanding and average players can coast at this level and not be 'found out' when they enter the professional game

Just an anecdote from a mutual friend who I happen to chat to at some length last year

@Marcuss

 

[Chubb]

Small story which could (or could not) be tangentially related to the larger point

A mutual friend of mine signed a professional contract with Warwickshire five years ago, and a couple of years later gravitated to the first team and scored a century opening the batting v Lancs with an attack featuring James Anderson. He averages just over 20 from 11 FC games
Since being released from the county two seasons ago, he's taken up a work opportunity in Brisbane and regularly plays 2s Grade cricket for his club. He's played a little bit of 1s but says the standard in his own words "is just exponentially better than anything back home in club cricket" (this would be in Birmingham)
"It's much tougher, the fixtures are not condensed so that adequate preparation is taken into consideration and the fast bowlers bowl quicker for longer periods of time" "Playing a game held over two weekends builds up resilience and mental toughness, as batsman need to bat long periods and can build a foundation, and bowlers have to bowl 3-4 spells per day" "This is never seen back in England" "It's not too demanding and average players can coast at this level and not be 'found out' when they enter the professional game

Just an anecdote from a mutual friend who I happen to chat to at some length last year

Your friend also played Associate international cricket didn't he?

 

[cricketsavant]

THEY WILL NEVER GET RID OF THE 18 COUNTIES.
Supporters won't let it happen.
Fans are so parochial, they aren't going to attend or listen or watch on a stream a team called South West England, East Wales, just won't happen.
I support Kent even though I live in Australia. When I go to England on holiday to watch cricket I watch them at Canterbury or Tunbridge Wells, I wouldn't waste my money and fly over to watch a team called South West England or London etc.

Yep, all those 12 fans haha

But on am ore serious note, I just raised those as regional names, not actually team names. They can be called something different, the idea is that city based, franchise teams are far better and bring in more money than county teams playing on empty grounds.

 

[cricketsavant]

Small story which could (or could not) be tangentially related to the larger point

A mutual friend of mine signed a professional contract with Warwickshire five years ago, and a couple of years later gravitated to the first team and scored a century opening the batting v Lancs with an attack featuring James Anderson. He averages just over 20 from 11 FC games
Since being released from the county two seasons ago, he's taken up a work opportunity in Brisbane and regularly plays 2s Grade cricket for his club. He's played a little bit of 1s but says the standard in his own words "is just exponentially better than anything back home in club cricket" (this would be in Birmingham)
"It's much tougher, the fixtures are not condensed so that adequate preparation is taken into consideration and the fast bowlers bowl quicker for longer periods of time" "Playing a game held over two weekends builds up resilience and mental toughness, as batsman need to bat long periods and can build a foundation, and bowlers have to bowl 3-4 spells per day" "This is never seen back in England" "It's not too demanding and average players can coast at this level and not be 'found out' when they enter the professional game

Just an anecdote from a mutual friend who I happen to chat to at some length last year

The fast bowling issue is a result of when the 4-day game is played in this country. It starts when it is too wet and cool and ends when it is too wet and cool. The problem is, pace does not work, you just have to toddle up and bowl with enough ability to swing on an overcast morning.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Your friend also played Associate international cricket didn't he?

Andrew Umeed. Mutual friend. Was on the staff at Durham previously before he had a full-time contract at Warwickshire.
Why would I make it up?

 

[Chubb]

Andrew Umeed. Mutual friend. Was on the staff at Durham previously before he had a full-time contract at Warwickshire.
Why would I make it up?

I'm not suggesting you did make it up. I just enjoyed trying to work out who it was and wasn't sure you would want to give his name out.

 

[tony p]

Yep, all those 12 fans haha

But on am ore serious note, I just raised those as regional names, not actually team names. They can be called something different, the idea is that city based, franchise teams are far better and bring in more money than county teams playing on empty grounds.

The thing is , it's the Test Match county grounds who don't get big crowds for county games, particularly Lords & Edgbaston when I come to England.
The best crowds are easily, the non-test grounds, Scarborough, cheltenham, worcester, Liverpool, Taunton, Arundel, Canterbury, etc

Franchise teams are rubbish, look at the BBL here in Australia, nobody really cares about them, I support Tasmania, and although I want the Hobart Hurricanes to do well, I don't have any passion for them, not really worried if I miss any of their matches.

The counties have already been stuffed by the ECB with the hundred, they didn't vote for a HUNDRED competition, it was forced on them, via giving them a handout of cash.
As I said before, no county is just going to just leave cricket, they are to ingrained, what needs to happen is the ECB to plan their fixturing correctly, and STOP just thinking about how much money they can make.

 

[Dazinho]

Don't think Cheshire vs Suffolk would be worthy on TV but a better marketing campaign and they can be all streamed. Premier League would need to have the very best for it to work, Would give a lesser talent pool to pick from but i feel 2 divisions is still needed.

Oh I would definitely watch that - live on Sky Sports 47!!

 

[cricketsavant]

The thing is , it's the Test Match county grounds who don't get big crowds for county games, particularly Lords & Edgbaston when I come to England.
The best crowds are easily, the non-test grounds, Scarborough, cheltenham, worcester, Liverpool, Taunton, Arundel, Canterbury, etc

Franchise teams are rubbish, look at the BBL here in Australia, nobody really cares about them, I support Tasmania, and although I want the Hobart Hurricanes to do well, I don't have any passion for them, not really worried if I miss any of their matches.

The counties have already been stuffed by the ECB with the hundred, they didn't vote for a HUNDRED competition, it was forced on them, via giving them a handout of cash.
As I said before, no county is just going to just leave cricket, they are to ingrained, what needs to happen is the ECB to plan their fixturing correctly, and STOP just thinking about how much money they can make.

Well, this whole thread is a hypothetical blank slate so there's no point in saying the counties won't just leave.

As for whatever you mean by the BBL, pre-Covid, they played in front of big crowds, far bigger than any crowds in England, although the grounds here are smaller. The T20 blast here has done well but it's been fading as a financial entity for years, far behind what the IPL, BBL and PSL can offer.

In fact, while we're on that topic, I always felt it would have been better or the ECB to re-launch the T20 competition as a franchise based, private run comp, much like the IPL than to create The Hundred and further clutter their season.

 

[Pup Clarke]

I'm not suggesting you did make it up. I just enjoyed trying to work out who it was and wasn't sure you would want to give his name out.

Sorry, bit snippy last night after a long day. My initial reaction is to think sarcasm is the default amongst many here. Apologies

 

[Dazinho]

Well, this whole thread is a hypothetical blank slate so there's no point in saying the counties won't just leave.

As for whatever you mean by the BBL, pre-Covid, they played in front of big crowds, far bigger than any crowds in England, although the grounds here are smaller. The T20 blast here has done well but it's been fading as a financial entity for years, far behind what the IPL, BBL and PSL can offer.

In fact, while we're on that topic, I always felt it would have been better or the ECB to re-launch the T20 competition as a franchise based, private run comp, much like the IPL than to create The Hundred and further clutter their season.

I guess there are two 'types' of answer here:-

1) if we have blank slate
2) if we accept that counties aren't voting for Christmas

Personally I'm interested in both, despite the OP.

 

[fredfertang]

Four divisions of nine teams each

The existing 18 First Class counties in Divisions 1 and 2 with two up two down between them

18 existing National Counties in Divisions 3 and 4 with two up two down between them

Play off at the end of season between bottom side in Division 2 and top in Division 3

Get rid of the existing second eleven structure the sides in 1 and 2 encouraged to make second eleven players available for Division 3 and 4 counties

To start with I'd envisage Divisions 1 and 2 play 16 four day matches

Divisions 3 and 4 maybe three day fixtures, and maybe decide the final table on percentages so the counties need not all play the same number of games

 

[cricketsavant]

I guess there are two 'types' of answer here:-

1) if we have blank slate
2) if we accept that counties aren't voting for Christmas

Personally I'm interested in both, despite the OP.

In a realistic world it's definitely difficult if not impossible for the counties to be overthrown as it were but the current system is so ingrained in elitism that if the ECB is serious about expanding the game, this is the only solution.

 

[chris.hinton]

Four divisions of nine teams each

The existing 18 First Class counties in Divisions 1 and 2 with two up two down between them

18 existing National Counties in Divisions 3 and 4 with two up two down between them

Play off at the end of season between bottom side in Division 2 and top in Division 3

Get rid of the existing second eleven structure the sides in 1 and 2 encouraged to make second eleven players available for Division 3 and 4 counties

To start with I'd envisage Divisions 1 and 2 play 16 four day matches

Divisions 3 and 4 maybe three day fixtures, and maybe decide the final table on percentages so the counties need not all play the same number of games

Not a chance will any Champion Minor county be read to face First Class sides week in week out.