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Cricket stuff that doesn't deserve its own thread

cnerd123

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Why is the quality of part time bowlers declining? :blink:
This is actually a very good question.

I have a few theories

1) More limited overs cricket during a player's development, so less opportunities for part-timers to hone their skills. Young batters probably got to bowl a lot during youth multi-day games, but with the rise of white ball formats they probably just don't get as many overs in as they used to. It's also why young bowlers don't bat as well these days. And if there isn't much chance to bat/bowl in a game, then they perhaps don't put as much time developing those skills in training.

2) T20s forcing specialization - there are some stats floating around about how many balls numbers 6/7/8 face in a T20 game, and it's not much. Something in the range of 3 overs in total between the three of them per game. This means that instead of the 6-1-4 sort of lineup we're used to in ODIs, sides are going in with 5 batters (one of whom can keep), 2-3 allrounders and the rest pure bowlers. Filling in the 5th bowler's quota with part-time rubbish is not a valid strategy, and with so much T20 being played these days it's easy to see why batters have stopped working on their bowling and have instead taken up keeping or becoming a really good fielders. Those who persist with bowling are doing so to move themselves into 'allrounder' status.

3) New ODI rules. 4 fielders outside the inner circle during the middle overs + 2 new balls has removed the scope for a part-timer chucking down filth between overs 15 and 40. Now the pressure is on teams to pick 5 legit bowling options here as well, or to do what England does and pick bowlers who can bat and fill a specific role with the ball.

4) Better batting pitches in LOIs + better bowling pitches in FC/Tests. Essentially has the same impact as above - you need quality bowling for the entirety of a white ball game, while red ball games are now so bowler friendly that you rarely need part-time overs.
 

karan_fromthestands

State Captain
This is actually a very good question.

I have a few theories

1) More limited overs cricket during a player's development, so less opportunities for part-timers to hone their skills. Young batters probably got to bowl a lot during youth multi-day games, but with the rise of white ball formats they probably just don't get as many overs in as they used to. It's also why young bowlers don't bat as well these days. And if there isn't much chance to bat/bowl in a game, then they perhaps don't put as much time developing those skills in training.

2) T20s forcing specialization - there are some stats floating around about how many balls numbers 6/7/8 face in a T20 game, and it's not much. Something in the range of 3 overs in total between the three of them per game. This means that instead of the 6-1-4 sort of lineup we're used to in ODIs, sides are going in with 5 batters (one of whom can keep), 2-3 allrounders and the rest pure bowlers. Filling in the 5th bowler's quota with part-time rubbish is not a valid strategy, and with so much T20 being played these days it's easy to see why batters have stopped working on their bowling and have instead taken up keeping or becoming a really good fielders. Those who persist with bowling are doing so to move themselves into 'allrounder' status.

3) New ODI rules. 4 fielders outside the inner circle during the middle overs + 2 new balls has removed the scope for a part-timer chucking down filth between overs 15 and 40. Now the pressure is on teams to pick 5 legit bowling options here as well, or to do what England does and pick bowlers who can bat and fill a specific role with the ball.

4) Better batting pitches in LOIs + better bowling pitches in FC/Tests. Essentially has the same impact as above - you need quality bowling for the entirety of a white ball game, while red ball games are now so bowler friendly that you rarely need part-time overs.
Excellent post. Some very valid reasons why part timers are disappearing.

I really miss watching part timers like Yuvraj, Lehman, Katich, D Mongia, Sachin, Ganguly, Cronje, Ryder, Astle, McMilan, etc.
 

chris.hinton

International Captain
As it enters 2022, the Ricky Skerritt–led Cricket West Indies (CWI) should be seeking to have a much-improved year from the annus horribilis that its 2021 can now only be best described as having been. Towards that end here are our top 15 suggestions for resolutions CWI should now be seeking to fulfill during this 2022 New Year.

01. CWI must request of the ruling Governments of its respective member countries that

they should mandate, by September 2022, the addition of West Indies cricket history to the curriculum of all primary and secondary schools within the region.

02. CWI should similarly request of such Governments that they must also mandate the addition of a paid cricket coach to the staffing component of each secondary school within the region.

03. The local cricket boards within CWI’s member countries must organize primary and secondary schools cricket competitions at the U11, U13, U15, U17, and U19 levels.


04. Local cricket boards should mandate that their participating league teams include at least two U23 players, one bowler, and a batsman each.

05. Cricket West Indies (CWI) should organize a region-wide prize competition for the development of an attractive promotional poster that charts the available progression pathway from U11 cricket through to representing West Indies in Tests, ODIs, and T20 cricket. Brian Lara, Jason Holder, and Dwayne Bravo’s photos should be included for placement at the top of the pathway as examples of how lucrative potential West Indies cricket careers can be. The winning poster should be placed in all primary and secondary schools throughout the region.

06. CWI should also revert to its previous practice of hosting designated schoolchildren stands at Caribbean hosted international matches. At least 1000 schoolchildren, from different schools, should be allowed free entry to all international matches played in the Caribbean. Regular visits to schools by legendary former players on “Legends Days” should also become a feature of the annual school calendar.

07. CWI should also develop and implement discounted family group ticket pricing for its hosted international matches.

08. CWI should expand its Regional four-day competition from six to eight teams through the addition of teams representing a) a regional U23 team and b) a team comprised of bona fide registered students from the Universities of the West Indies and Guyana, as well as any other tertiary education colleges within the region.

09. CWI should reconvene its annual Super50 tournament as a 10-team competition including representative teams from Canada and the USA.


10. CWI should request and secure the Caribbean Premier League’s (CPL) agreement to expand its participating franchises roster from 6 to 8 teams. The two additional teams should be Canadian and US franchises. Their 17 member rosters should each be comprised of 10 local players, 5 West Indians, and 2 international marquee cricketers.

11. CWI, along with Cricket Canada and USA Cricket, should establish annual tri-nation tournaments for U23 players in both the 50 and T20 formats.

12. CWI should develop and implement initiatives aimed at monetizing the now still existing interest in and loyalty to West Indies cricket of its estimated 2 million-plus global fans. Generated revenues from initiatives such as the sale of acquired, inexpensive, China/India-made player shirts to West Indies fans at pricing no higher than US$25, can be used directly and specifically towards projects related to the further development of Caribbean youth cricket.

13. CWI should establish its own Annual Awards to recognize the outstanding calendar year accomplishments of its players across all three of international crickets’ current formats. CWI’s annual recognition should also include a Tony Cozier Media Award to the past year’s most outstanding Caribbean cricket journalist.

14. CWI should establish a two-year plan for its participation in the forthcoming ICC T20 World Cups. The West Indies team’s 2022 T20 World Cup objective should be to first qualify then to progress beyond the Super6 into the semi/finals. The team’s objective for the 2024 Caribbean hosted tournament should be to emerge as champions! CWI should establish similar team objectives for the 2023 and 2027 ICC 50 Over World Cups. It should bid to host the 2027 tournament and aim for the team to be champions. Finally, CWI should also develop a six-year plan for West Indies to become Test Cricket champions by 2028, the 100th anniversary of the West Indies entry into Test cricket.

15. All cricket development plans, procedures and practices such as the aforementioned tri-formats World Cup/Championship goals, should be the work of a reconstituted 9- member Cricket Committee. The Committee’s membership should be comprised of one former player representative for each of the six regional boards, the CWI Cricket Development Manager, the Selections Panel Chair, as well as its own appointed Chairperson. The Committee must have an established schedule of meetings and its decisions should be reflected in selected West Indies teams.


If it does indeed implement at least some, if not all, of the aforementioned suggestions, our bet would be that come this time next year any analysis of CWI’s past 12 months would then be considerably more favorable than it has been for 2021.
Interesting ideas for West Indies Cricket
 

TheJediBrah

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Leading question. Is it declining?
Now that I think of it, I don't think it is. Possibly the type of part-time bowlers has changed. You look at all the random part-time spinners that bowl in T20s out of nowhere now and do a fine job. Whereas 20 years ago you had a lot of part-time medium-pacers do a job in international cricket, they seem to have disappeared and it's all part-time spinners.
 

TheJediBrah

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Excellent post. Some very valid reasons why part timers are disappearing.

I really miss watching part timers like Yuvraj, Lehman, Katich, D Mongia, Sachin, Ganguly, Cronje, Ryder, Astle, McMilan, etc.
One reason why you might not see as many part-timers in Test cricket now in certain teams is most play 5 bowlers these days, it's pretty rare for a team to go in with just 4 bowlers. In the days of most of those guys you mentioned there would have only been 4 front-line bowlers per team
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Now that I think of it, I don't think it is. Possibly the type of part-time bowlers has changed. You look at all the random part-time spinners that bowl in T20s out of nowhere now and do a fine job. Whereas 20 years ago you had a lot of part-time medium-pacers do a job in international cricket, they seem to have disappeared and it's all part-time spinners.
I'd agree with assessments that the role of part timers has declined in ODIs, but I think that's because (aside from things like two new balls and 4 fielders outside the ring) batsmen these days are better treating such bowlers with the contempt they deserve. With tests and medium pacers, the Kookaburra ball offers nothing and in conditions that would suit a medium pacer the specialists can usually do the job. I don't think they've gotten worse, but conditions are less friendly to them and there's less place tactically.

As for T20s, it's hard to say that specialisation is increasing and part timers are declining when Joe Burns has opened the bowling in the recent past. If anything @cnerd123 is completely wrong on that one. A lot of T20 teams carry a surfeit of non-specialist bowling options. The reason why they move from 'part-timer' to 'allrounder' is that such options are often pretty useful.
 
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GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
This is the reason why I find the whole "Smith wont have known about sandpaper" defense weak af. This is the environment he grew up in. Waugh's side were awful in behaviour but at least they could be nice coz they got so bored of winning with that ATG side. Ponting just thought it was his birthright to be nasty and cried like cowards (all bullies are) when it was given back to them. Clarke and Lehmann thought it was this behaviour that made them an ATG side, not the host of talented cricketers. You can draw a straight line to how Steve Smith ran his team as a captain from all this. And its funny how CA get to hand out punishments having been the biggest enablers of all this.
Damn I just saw this. What a seriously ****ing stupid take
 

cnerd123

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As for T20s, it's hard to say that specialisation is increasing and part timers are declining when Joe Burns has opened the bowling in the recent past. If anything @cnerd123 is completely wrong on that one. A lot of T20 teams carry a surfeit of non-specialist bowling options. The reason why they move from 'part-timer' to 'allrounder' is that such options are often pretty useful.
Wouldn't Joe Burns bowling just be due to the Big Bash being covid-wrecked? I hear they're pulling up grade cricketers to play for free and make up the numbers.

I'm not quite sure what the standard BBL team is set up like and how things go there, but from the IPL and World Cup it seems clear your 7th bowling option will barely be required. Aus won it by cobbling together Maxwell and Stoinis to make a 5th bowler, and the other semi finalists all had 6 options as well IIRC. Generally the preference is for pure bowlers at 9/10/11 and then trying to squeeze in 3 bowlers and a keeper inside the Top 8, which sometimes means a bowling AR pinch hitting as opener.

But I don't actually have any stats for this, just observations.
 

TheJediBrah

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Really **** part-time spinners bowling the first over in T20s has been a thing for a while. Theory is you sneak a free over out of them while the batsmen are hesitant to go too hard. So if you get 0-6 it's a win.
 

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