Quinton de Kock has retired from test cricket

[TheJediBrah]

Just take out the words "in SA" in your post and apply for Bradman. Does make sense as an analogy.

Are you serious? The whole point of the de Kock/Starc/Imran thing is comparing home v away average, and that the home average is better despite supposedly being in harder conditions. It's not just saying "this guy good so musn't have been hard". How is this so hard for people to understand?

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm still not sure you do quite get it judging by the above comment. I never said that the wickets weren't jucier or harder to bat on in SA, that wasn't my point at all. Purely in the context of judging his batting, whether or not wickets in SA were harder to bat on in general, for him they evidently weren't. So rating him higher because the wickets in SA were harder for batting in general doesn't make much sense when they weren't harder for him. It's by no means a perfect point, players adapt to their home conditions of course, but it's something to think about and it applies to a lot of players.

eg. Mitchell Starc's bowling. Should rate him higher because he's played on the flattest decks imaginable at home, yet he has a better bowling average at home than away. See also, Imran Khan's bowling at home.

I get what you're saying but I do actually think we should do that as well.

Players often end up with better home records even when the conditions are tough because a) they develop a style more suited to them and b) when they're playing away they're playing against opposition players who are used to the conditions there.... but I still think it's likely that if their home conditions were more favourable to them that they'd have an even better home record, so when you're comparing them to other players who that's true for it makes sense to give them an allowance for it.

 

[Chrish]

ODIs yes, tests no if you're using batting as a criterion as that gives the gloves to AB.

In an ideal world where there is no IPL.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I get what you're saying but I do actually think we should do that as well.

Players often end up with better home records even when the conditions are tough because a) they develop a style more suited to them and b) when they're playing away they're playing against opposition players who are used to the conditions there.... but I still think it's likely that if their home conditions were more favourable to them that they'd have an even better home record, so when you're comparing them to other players who that's true for it makes sense to give them an allowance for it.

Yeah I did touch on all that, I just think we should think twice before saying "Starc is such a great bowler because he played home games on the flattest pitches" because it implies that if he played for say, England, instead he'd have better stats which judging by his bowling style and performance in those countries is probably not true.

Obviously there are complexities, there's the "if he was from another country he would have adapted a different style" etc. but if we start going down those rabbit holes then everything's meaningless

 

[StephenZA]

de Villiers and Kallis both average over 50.

Just to be clear only Kallis avg above 50 in SA for SA since readmission, not including Albie Morkels single innings. The next best is ABdV at 47... almost 10 below Kallis SA average.

 

[Aritro]

A wonderful, free-flowing batsman who had both grace and poise in equal measure. To me, he's been the most aesthetically pleasing batsman to watch over the past decade.

Yeah agree with this I reckon