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England (and Wales) gloom, doom and recriminations thread
- Thread starter wpdavid
- Start date
the big bambino
International Captain
The paywalling of cricket was wrong to the extent it deprives cricket of participants and fans. Surely the economics of taking less for more exposure will be repaid in sales of tickets and merchandise over life times; or at least you'd think? Separate to that, wealthy people would be playing some kind of sport so better it be cricket than anything else. If only cricket could benefit from their resources and influence ... who knows.
While true other teams can manage all formats I think Eng obsessed over white ball formats and maybe that explains part of their batting problems in tests. I also kind of suspect teams that concentrate on pace bowling depth end up neglecting batting. The WI then, SA, Eng now and even Aus, which has been saved by Warner's extended run, Smith and the almost accidental discovery of Marnus. India has managed both facets of the game the best though their batting isn't as good as the noughties.
While true other teams can manage all formats I think Eng obsessed over white ball formats and maybe that explains part of their batting problems in tests. I also kind of suspect teams that concentrate on pace bowling depth end up neglecting batting. The WI then, SA, Eng now and even Aus, which has been saved by Warner's extended run, Smith and the almost accidental discovery of Marnus. India has managed both facets of the game the best though their batting isn't as good as the noughties.
ImpatientLime
International Regular
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, but that presupposes any sort of long-term perspective from the ECB. Recent events suggest that they're only interested in generating as much cash flow as possible to then pay out large bonuses to the guys in charge. Looking ahead, the only likely change to The Hundred is to double the length of it.
Spark
Global Moderator
can't imagine why people are complaining that the county championship isn't preparing english batsmen to face real bowlers
ImpatientLime
International Regular
i dunno if anyone watched but on skus vodcast of the melbourne test, rob key let it slip that a recent group of aussie bats playing in the CC had a whatsapp group called 'stevos gonna get ya' supposedly in reference to darren stevens.
Groundking
International Debutant
The duke isn't the problem but playing at the book ends of the season ensures poor county pitches and exaggerates what the duke does.
Fewer teams will concentrate the quality better but this isn't the only way to increase standards
Don't really know about this.
Yeh it's ****, but it's only been a thing for a year and we've been terrible for getting close to a decade now.
This is mostly nonsense imo.
Probably something in both of these.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
@Shri linked to that video in the match thread. So I did see it. Was funny, ngl.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
And they couldn’t even get him away…
_00_deathscar
International Regular
So they can be racist to more players?
Spark
Global Moderator
I mean are you seeing how much that ball swings
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
GotSpin
Hall of Fame Member
****ing hell that’s some serious hoop
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yes despite what some xenophobes say, getting more forn players in would really help, and getting rid of Kolpak has clearly hurt the standard.
I think the Sky deal can't be dismissed out of hand, the fact is we can't know the impact not seeing cricket has on kids.
and yes the timeline doesn't look good, 2005 on Channel 4 then a good few years of possibly the best English side I've seen (slim pickings) to where we are now...
I think the Sky deal can't be dismissed out of hand, the fact is we can't know the impact not seeing cricket has on kids.
and yes the timeline doesn't look good, 2005 on Channel 4 then a good few years of possibly the best English side I've seen (slim pickings) to where we are now...
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
When the foreign influx started in the Prem we were told it would forever weaken the England team, well the England footy team is the best its been in half a century. Playing alongside or against world class players helps player development and the timing of our summer gives us such an advantage in the amount of game time we can offer top-class players and yet we don't take advantage of this.
andruid
Cricketer Of The Year
That'lol be the gloom
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
T20 (and similar) is certainly impacting a lot of the younger batsman games.
Someone like Phil Salt has played 50+ games of T20, Hundred or t10 this year.
Many of the seemingly best batting prospects of the last 5 years are now playing a majority of 20 over/equivalent cricket. Joe Clarke, Ben Duckett, Tom Kohler-Cadmore all spending the winter playing franchise cricket. All with 30+ games this year.
Established pros like Vince and Livingstone with 40+ games across the year in the shorter formats.
Talented strikers of the ball that have been brought up on T20 like Banton, Salt, Smeed, Jacks all with overseas stuff this winter. All playing a majority of T20/equivalent cricket. These guys probably are never going to going to develop a game to be able to play test cricket.
Smeed has 28 games in T20 or equivalent. Hasn't played a fc or 50 over game. Already playing Abu Dhabi t10. He was one of the best prospects coming through the England agegroups (although impacted by injury) and yet what is his future in the game?
In the English season alone you can play upto 25 domestic t20/equiv games in 2021, that's not including international games. You add in the various lucrative opportunities to play overseas over the English winter, and many of these young promising batsman just aren't going to put the effort into their 4 day game.
You can see technically with some of these players what T20 has done. Guys like Joe Clarke who've adapated their technique to hit the ball harder and access the legside with bottom handed dominant grip leaving them with shoddy techniques in first class cricket. Similar to Crawley and Bairstow.
It's just very hard to see how any of the guys mentioned are going to make it at test level. It's just too easy and profitable to play all the t20 cricket you can. Sure a Livingstone would jump at the chance of playing test cricket if it came up but how prepared would he be having played a majority of t20 cricket over the last years? Livingstone played 6 championship games for Lancs this year and averaged 11 with the bat. He'd play, probably fail, would be a little disappointed but would fall back on his lucrative t20 career, and not really work on his failed first class game. A bit like James Vince for instance, or even Dawid Malan.
Unfortunately even guys who are seen as primarily 4 day players are looking on enviously on those making decent money playing T20. Players like Alex Davies and Adam Lyth have had gigs with franchises in recent times. More and more will be drawn to this.
T20 an issue for all countries. England have some issues that are more specific to them:-
They play more than most (upto 25) if not all during their domestic season. This is excessive.
English winter coincides with the majority of domestic T20 cricket so no shortage of profitable opportunities for English players. This means lack of work on 4 day game and more focus on white ball game.
Players are allowed to miss domestic first class cricket to play IPL because it is so profitable for counties and players, to the detriment of their first class game.
Someone like Phil Salt has played 50+ games of T20, Hundred or t10 this year.
Many of the seemingly best batting prospects of the last 5 years are now playing a majority of 20 over/equivalent cricket. Joe Clarke, Ben Duckett, Tom Kohler-Cadmore all spending the winter playing franchise cricket. All with 30+ games this year.
Established pros like Vince and Livingstone with 40+ games across the year in the shorter formats.
Talented strikers of the ball that have been brought up on T20 like Banton, Salt, Smeed, Jacks all with overseas stuff this winter. All playing a majority of T20/equivalent cricket. These guys probably are never going to going to develop a game to be able to play test cricket.
Smeed has 28 games in T20 or equivalent. Hasn't played a fc or 50 over game. Already playing Abu Dhabi t10. He was one of the best prospects coming through the England agegroups (although impacted by injury) and yet what is his future in the game?
In the English season alone you can play upto 25 domestic t20/equiv games in 2021, that's not including international games. You add in the various lucrative opportunities to play overseas over the English winter, and many of these young promising batsman just aren't going to put the effort into their 4 day game.
You can see technically with some of these players what T20 has done. Guys like Joe Clarke who've adapated their technique to hit the ball harder and access the legside with bottom handed dominant grip leaving them with shoddy techniques in first class cricket. Similar to Crawley and Bairstow.
It's just very hard to see how any of the guys mentioned are going to make it at test level. It's just too easy and profitable to play all the t20 cricket you can. Sure a Livingstone would jump at the chance of playing test cricket if it came up but how prepared would he be having played a majority of t20 cricket over the last years? Livingstone played 6 championship games for Lancs this year and averaged 11 with the bat. He'd play, probably fail, would be a little disappointed but would fall back on his lucrative t20 career, and not really work on his failed first class game. A bit like James Vince for instance, or even Dawid Malan.
Unfortunately even guys who are seen as primarily 4 day players are looking on enviously on those making decent money playing T20. Players like Alex Davies and Adam Lyth have had gigs with franchises in recent times. More and more will be drawn to this.
T20 an issue for all countries. England have some issues that are more specific to them:-
They play more than most (upto 25) if not all during their domestic season. This is excessive.
English winter coincides with the majority of domestic T20 cricket so no shortage of profitable opportunities for English players. This means lack of work on 4 day game and more focus on white ball game.
Players are allowed to miss domestic first class cricket to play IPL because it is so profitable for counties and players, to the detriment of their first class game.
Last edited:
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
On the plus side for many of the same reasons I reckon England's white ball sides should* remain strong for a long time to come.
* it's england so maybe not.
* it's england so maybe not.