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***Official*** India in South Africa 2021-22

A

artvandalay

State Vice-Captain
centurymaker said:
Still I would go for just 4 bowlers next game (Vihari as the extra batter and who can bowl few overs of spin if needed)-

Umesh
Shami
Bumrah
Siraj

Each one capable of taking a bag of wickets in Johannesburg.
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without pandya we could have used one more seam AR option. I wish we had showed some out of the box thinking and given Venkatesh Iyer a cap.
 
Bahseph

Bahseph

International Debutant
After the fightback this morning I'm sure the SA bowlers must be quite upset at their batting counterparts! Not a good showing at all.

I mentioned in an earlier post that SA has a few Test class players,and I had Markram and Elgar in mind. With them failing it was always an uphill struggle. Bavuma is good for these little 50s were he looks a million bucks, but there is literally only one instance where he converted that into a 100. But he gets a pass for now...

Petersen and Mulder need to step up. Both in the top 7 and literally nothing to show for it as yet. VDD is never going to be a top class Test player but he tries to get stuck in and he just didn't come off today. Jansen does look like he could be a very good 8. I understand what the selectors see in him. Exciting prospect!

Well done to Shami as well. It's a blessing for India to have Shami,Bumrah and Ishant around at once. Heck Siraj has impressed me since his debut and Umesh is always a threat at home. Proper pace attack these days.
 
centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
Apex Predator said:
Thakur should just throw his bat around tomorrow & score a quick 20-30... Will surely mess SA attack line & lengths. He ain't lasting long defending
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Terrible idea. Whole of Indian team just did that on start of day 3 and succumbed in 15 overs.

if he plays freely, trying to attack, he will get nicked off very easily with all the extra bounce and seam movement.

Needs to bat proper test cricket and show us he has somewhat adapted to the conditions. If he cannot do that, he is almost only as good as Umesh when it comes to batting in these conditions. I.e. poor.

Will be interesting to see.
 
centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
Thakur's FC avg is 17.3

Umesh's FC avg is 14.6

If thakur struggles in these conditions, then there isn't much difference between him and Umesh so you can play the much better bowler in the next test!
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Bahseph said:
After the fightback this morning I'm sure the SA bowlers must be quite upset at their batting counterparts! Not a good showing at all.

I mentioned in an earlier post that SA has a few Test class players,and I had Markram and Elgar in mind. With them failing it was always an uphill struggle. Bavuma is good for these little 50s were he looks a million bucks, but there is literally only one instance where he converted that into a 100. But he gets a pass for now...

Petersen and Mulder need to step up. Both in the top 7 and literally nothing to show for it as yet. VDD is never going to be a top class Test player but he tries to get stuck in and he just didn't come off today. Jansen does look like he could be a very good 8. I understand what the selectors see in him. Exciting prospect!

Well done to Shami as well. It's a blessing for India to have Shami,Bumrah and Ishant around at once. Heck Siraj has impressed me since his debut and Umesh is always a threat at home. Proper pace attack these days.
Click to expand...
So the concern is Markram as he now has had time to settle in Tests, but needs to start producing. The reason for me this is a big problem is actually Elgar. Elgar is currently captain because we can't burden Markram because he is still struggling. If we could I would actually drop Elgar, as while he has contributed on/off been waning recently. We have a number of talented young batsmen to try out.

VDD should never have been selected, his selection is a symptom of the bigger problem in SA cricket selection at the moment. We need to rebuild the batting, plenty of talent available but they are only just starting to get selected and most aren't playing. How much better would it have been if we selected Petersen 2/3 years ago (after his best domestic year) or van Tonder or the numerous other young players with real talent and promise, we would have a much better idea of where we stood. We would now be in a position to try out players like Breetzke and Rickelton. But now they are about 4/5th in the pecking order because we still have these incumbents. But we keep not looking forward, we still keep losing and the selected more 'mature' players are just blocking the rebuild process. And the longer that goes on the more we get into the same position as we kick the can down the road for another 2 years.

I am just tired of saying the same thing for the last 3 year, and seeing the same processes continue. It took to long to select Mulder, its why I am happy to see the selection of Jansen (even if he is not my favourite). While everyone goes on about Olivier. I want to see Coetzee, I want to see Sipamla.
 
Apex Predator

Apex Predator

State Vice-Captain
centurymaker said:
Thakur's FC avg is 17.3

Umesh's FC avg is 14.6

If thakur struggles in these conditions, then there isn't much difference between him and Umesh so you can play the much better bowler in the next test!
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Thakur the batsman is still better than today's Pujara. He is the one who should be compared with Umesh with the bat. Lord deserves his spot in playing XI.
 
Dendarii

Dendarii

International Debutant
StephenZA said:
So the concern is Markram as he now has had time to settle in Tests, but needs to start producing. The reason for me this is a big problem is actually Elgar. Elgar is currently captain because we can't burden Markram because he is still struggling. If we could I would actually drop Elgar, as while he has contributed on/off been waning recently. We have a number of talented young batsmen to try out.

VDD should never have been selected, his selection is a symptom of the bigger problem in SA cricket selection at the moment. We need to rebuild the batting, plenty of talent available but they are only just starting to get selected and most aren't playing. How much better would it have been if we selected Petersen 2/3 years ago (after his best domestic year) or van Tonder or the numerous other young players with real talent and promise, we would have a much better idea of where we stood. We would now be in a position to try out players like Breetzke and Rickelton. But now they are about 4/5th in the pecking order because we still have these incumbents. But we keep not looking forward, we still keep losing and the selected more 'mature' players are just blocking the rebuild process. And the longer that goes on the more we get into the same position as we kick the can down the road for another 2 years.

I am just tired of saying the same thing for the last 3 year, and seeing the same processes continue. It took to long to select Mulder, its why I am happy to see the selection of Jansen (even if he is not my favourite). While everyone goes on about Olivier. I want to see Coetzee, I want to see Sipamla.
Click to expand...
Part of the problem is that we don't play enough tests. Once a player is picked it's only fair to give him a decent run in the side, but it's taking too long for that decent run to happen. Van der Dussen is playing in his 11th match, which is now enough to be able to make a reasonable assessment of him, but it's taken two years to get to that point.

Of course, the number of tests we play isn't something we can necessarily have that much say in (and obviously COVID messing things has exacerbated the decision), but it does mean that we need to be more intelligent about our selections. The argument for picking a player with loads of first-class experience is that they know their game and will be able to hit the ground running when they make their international debut, but often there's a good reason why they've never been called up to national side while they've been amass that first-class experience, and it's not that previous selectors were wrong in overlooking them.

But something we do have control over is the international players playing in our domestic competition. Of the side, I think it was only Elgar, Petersen, Mulder, and Jansen who've played in the current 4-day series. So is it really a surprise that we looked a little underdone with more than half the team not having played red ball cricket for months?

There really should be a mandate that the national players play for their domestic sides when available. Not only will it give them game time, it improves the standard of the competition by having the best players play, and it's a way of assessing who's in form and how they compare against those who should be challenging them for a place in the test side. I know it can disrupt the domestic teams a little by having players pop in and out, but in the bigger scheme of things it's to everyone's benefit and there's no reason for them not to play.
 
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